+- The Lurker Lounge Forums (https://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums)
+-- Forum: The Lurker Lounge (https://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The Lounge (https://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/forum-12.html)
+--- Thread: Seeking sources (/thread-11634.html)
Seeking sources - Grumpy - 04-08-2003
I am looking for sources on the following things. Any advice or recommendations are welcome.
1. Debateing
2. US Politics - both government structure/function and history.
3. Essay writing
4. Logic
5. US Foreign Policy
6. Middle East History
Thank you for any ideas or suggestions.
Seeking sources - ShadowHM - 04-08-2003
For Logic in discussion:
http://datanation.com/fallacies/
Seeking sources - Grumpy - 04-08-2003
Thank you.
*clicks on link*
Seeking sources - Grumpy - 04-08-2003
Especially looking for books on Middle East history. The only one I have read 1/2 of is From Beirut to Jerusalem. Looking for more.
Seeking sources - Occhidiangela - 04-08-2003
1. Search under 'Balfour Agreement' to see how the lines on the map showed up. Important for all post Ottoman Empire Mid East understanding.
2. I use Britannica for a lot of history, some years ago I bought a set. :) It sucks on current stuff, but for pre 1985 stuff, it is pretty comprehensive.
3. "The Jews, God, and Israel" is an interesting book on where they fit into the picture, culturally, short book.
4. Search under Ottoman Empire, which lasted 1200's to 1900's. Indispensible in understanding how the Arabic Mohamaden movement that brought enlightenment to both Arabia and Spain was overtaken and eventually suppressed by Turkish rule. The check Mustafa Kemal, or Kamal, Attaturk, the man who led Turkey into the 20th century after the war. Leader of the Young Turks.
5. On Iran, check Persian History. Also look under Islamic Republic, the folks in Iran, namely the Ayatollah's, started that form of government. Whether or not it spreads remains to be seen.
6. Book. 'Crusade' by Rick Atkinson A reasonably objective account by a Newsweek reporter about the 1991 Gulf War. Check Sir Peter Belliard's book, I forget the title, for a Brit Perspective, though as a memoir, it is a bit self congratulatory. Check that one out, don't buy it. :)
7. Long book 'Seven Pillars of Wisdom' Background of dumping the Turks from power. T.E. Lawrence and how he worked with Faisal, and others, to fight the Turks in WW I via guerilla warfare. Faisal became the King of what is now Iraq in IIRC 1919. It is British in flavor, forewarned is forearmed.
8. For Afghanistan and Persia, you might want to look under The Great Game, or look at Russian and British Imperial competition 1700's to 1800's.
9. US Foreign Policy. Check 'Special Providence' by Meade. He may not have all the answers, but he makes an interesting synthesis of how our hodge podge fits together. See also George Keenan on Cold War containment policies.
I can't find my old book on the Iran-Iraq war these days, been looking for it lately, and wish I could remember its title. Been a few years since I read it. Written by a Brit. :P
Seeking sources - Occhidiangela - 04-09-2003
1. About U.S. politics that lead to the Civil War.
Freehling wrote a brilliant analysis of how the South seceded called "The Road To Disunion."
Warning: long book. Not sure how much time you have, and how much time you have to read. He is IIRC a University of Kentucky professor of history.
His major aim, it seemed to me, was to debunk the 'state's rights' argument and point to the fact that Slavery was the single driving cause of the Civil War, even if the North did not actually 'wage war to free the slaves.' (Plenty of other authors make that case as well.) He describes in detail how the Pro-Slavery faction in Southern politics, one of a number of factions, drove itself, and with it the entire South, into a corner.
He covers 1776 to 1854, and will or has put out a Volume 2 that covers 1854 to 1861. The best part of it, to me, was how he explains a lot of the detail in 1800-1850 US politics, a time period that I had, when I read the book, learned too little about.
2. Viet Nam // Stanley Karnow
I think Karnow is either Australian or Brit. He was a war correspondent in the 1960's, a contemporary of David Halberstam and Neil Sheehan. The volume, sort of long, is a pretty good overview Viet Nam the country, the character of the Vietnamese people, and the whole series of decisions, dating back to WW II and even back to Wilson and his Treaty of Verseilles days, and how they built the chain of events that led to Diem going down, Gulf of Tonkin, and the 1965-1970 phase that caused so much internal dissent within our own country.
Longish, but extremely readable.
If not 'the definitive' book, a very good and comprehensive look at a keystone event in American foreign policy post-WW II.
Understanding the Civil War and its origins is critical to understanding US history and our present, as I see it. Understanding Viet Nam is IMO critical to understanding modern US foreign policy, and some of the ghosts that still influence decision makers and critics alike.
3. A shorter book about modern U.S. policy decisions is by Woodward, called 'The Commanders.' He writes an able account of the wherefores and whys of the 1991 Persian Gulf War. Not sure if he got it all right, but I found it interesting.
4. David Halberstam wrote "The Best and The Brightest" in IIRC the early 1970's. My Mom and Dad both read it when it came out, though for some reason I have not yet. It explores Kennedy's cabinet and some of the decisions they made and what went into them.
5. "Dereliction of Duty"
Caveat: this book was written by an Army Major or LTC, McMaster, who had an ax to grind. He was a cavalry troop commander (tanks and Bradley's) in the 1991 Gulf War who saw extensive combat.
The axe he grinds is essentially the axe Barbara Tuchman ground in "March of Folly," where she examines how a country can act against its own self interest. McMaster used recently declassified, as in the past 5 years, national security documents to show how self-delusion became a habit in the Kennedy, and more seriously the Johnson, administrations. McMaster was of course gunning for former Sec Def Robert McNamara and a whole slew of General Officers who served in Washington and Viet Nam, from the vantage point of thirty years later or more, and basically charges them all with a severe case of anal-cranial inversion.
6. Bright Shining Lie // Neil Sheehan
This one was a huge hit when it came out. It may not fit your list of background sources. It is a bit more of a personal account following the career of an Army Officer, John Paul Vann, and superimposing it on the Viet Nam War, where Vann served, and the realities of how in 1963 a lot of folks realized that the US was backing a bunch of yahoos. Sheehan was also a combat correspondent in Viet Nam. His own emotions bleed all over the page, but I had a hard time putting the book down.
Seeking sources - Grumpy - 04-09-2003
Thanks Occhi.
Seeking sources - goldfish - 04-10-2003
For Revolution-era U.S. history, Gordon S. Wood wrote the definitive work, the Creation of the American Republic (published around 1975 or so, reprinted many times since).
On writing, get Strunk & White, Elements of Style, as well as either Chicago Manual of Style or New York Times Style Guide.
Seeking sources - TaMeOlta - 04-10-2003
This is from the Library of Congress:
The Emergence of Saddam Hussein
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?frd/...d(DOCID+iq0023)
If you forward a page or two the Iran -Iraq war will appear .
EDIT : Ooops that was s'posed to be reply to Occhi for Iran Iraq war ...... :blink: