The Lurker Lounge Forums
2 newbie questions - Printable Version

+- The Lurker Lounge Forums (https://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Lurker Games (https://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/forum-6.html)
+--- Forum: Diablo (https://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/forum-15.html)
+--- Thread: 2 newbie questions (/thread-11417.html)

2 newbie questions - dfn - 05-10-2003

Well, this is my first post here...
Can't believe that my interest in this game was rekindled again!
Anyway, my two questions are:

If I have only one item equipped, and I touch a Hidden shrine, is it more likely that its durability will increase, or decrease?

How do I determine which items can't be found in the dungeon, and can only be bought from Wirt or Griswold?

TIA

2 newbie questions - !!SaLtMaN!! - 05-10-2003

Well you need at least 2 items equipped to change the Durability.
Strange, Weird, Godly, Holy, Whale, Mammoth, etc can only be bought from wirt. I don't think there's an item that you can't find that gris sells...

2 newbie questions - Nystul - 05-10-2003

A Hidden shrine always decreases exactly one item if possible. Therefor, if you touch a Hidden shrine with one item equipped, it will always decrease (unless it is indestructible). You want to have all of your gear equipped when hitting Hidden shrines to increase the odds of any particular item's durability going up.

2 newbie questions - Charred_Scar - 05-10-2003

Is it true that with only a Thinking Cap on hitting a Hidden Shrine you get a Thinking Cap with a Dur of 11?

2 newbie questions - Zenda - 05-10-2003

Hello Charred Scar,

Don't fairly experienced D1 players know this by themselves? Perhaps you should take a look in Jarulfs Guide while not fighting runners, to find out more about this.

2 newbie questions - Meshuggah - 05-10-2003

:D

hahaha...

2 newbie questions - Roland - 05-10-2003

Aye, that was a good one Zenda. :D

2 newbie questions - dfn - 05-10-2003

Thanks everyone!

2 newbie questions - Elite - 05-10-2003

If you want to know all the details, look up Jarulfs guide, it'll help you very much.

And Saltman, sharp is something that cannot be bought by gris. All cursed gear cannot be bought either.

2 newbie questions - dfn - 05-11-2003

Thanks Elite.

I downloaded Jarulf's guide, and I read one part of Bolty's warrior guide. Now I have another question.
Jarulf's guide says that Wirt can sell any item within the price limit, and that the base item's qlvl is 1 to ilvl. The guide also says that for Wirt, ilvl = clvl, so that would mean the qlvl of base items at Wirt's is 1 to clvl. Now for prefixes and suffixes, he sells ilvl to 2*ilvl which would mean clvl to 2*clvl. So this is how I understand it:
base item: 1 to clvl
pref & suf: clvl to 2*clvl

Bolty's guide says "... a Holy Shield of the Mammal can only be purchased when your character is levels 18-21, from Wirt." Now I'm sure there are more examples of items that can only be bought while your char. is a certain level, but I'll use this one. If my character was level 24, why can't I buy a Holy shield of the Mammal from Wirt? A gothic shield's qlvl is 23, and a tower shield has a qlvl of 20. So if I'm clvl 24, Wirt can generate those two because their qlvls are withing the range 1 to 24, and also the prefix "Holy" has a qlvl of 35 which is within the range 2*clvl (2*24=48). The suffix (for example) "Mammoth" has a qlvl of 35 also, so it is also in the range.

So how come the shield can only be bought while you're level 18-21? There must be something I'm missing, I just hope it isn't something very obvious....heh

2 newbie questions - the Langolier - 05-11-2003

Hello there,

Not a bad job going through J.P.'s guide for the first time. Your mistake lies in the fact that "of the mammoth" cannot spawn on a shield (and don't worry, this is in a completely separate section of the guide ;). The highest +to life modifier on a shield is "of the tiger", which has a qlvl of 21. As you can see, this means the last time Wirt is able to offer you a shield of the tiger is clvl 21, which is what we expect. Also note that "of the tiger" is the only life suffix that can be paired with a holy shield.

I found this nice post that was brought to us by DeeBye in the old forums. It represents a good walkthrough of determining the best levels at which to find the holy shield of the tiger (thanks Dee!):

"It is possible to get a better shield - a Holy Shield of the Mammal. This is very difficult, however, since due to the method Diablo uses to determine what can be sold at what character level, a Holy Shield of the Mammal can only be purchased when your character is levels 18-21, from Wirt. This makes this shield VERY rare, since Wirt is your only source for this item."


Note: the reason why a Holy Shield of the Mammal is only purchasable at Wirt and not findable in the dungeon is that "Holy" has a qlvl of 35, and the highest qlvl that can be dropped from any source in the dungeon is 34.

Fine, I thought - there is a better shield out there than an Awesome Tower Shield of the Tiger. Let's see if I can find one. All I need is a character at clvl 18, but not higher than 21.

My Warrior currently has an Awesome Tower Shield of the Tiger (20 AC, +149%, +50 Life). I know that the chance of me finding a superior Holy/Tiger is pretty slim, but I thought I'd give it a shot nonetheless.

Well, he is clvl 38 as of the time of this writing, so it's not possible for him to get one on his own. So I created a new character to purchase it for him. As quickly as I could, I levelled up to 18.

For a totally unrelated reason, I was idly flipping through Jarulf's Guide (v1.61) when I came across section 3.9 (Item Creation in Town). I skipped ahead a few pages to have a look at the section on Wirt (3.9.4), and it clearly states that Wirt can sell base items with a qlvl in the range of 1 to ilvl.

Back I went to section 3.9 and had a look at the "Definition of ilvl" table. At Wirt, ilvl is simply defined as clvl.

Hrmm, something's not right here. I glanced at section 3.1, and saw that a Tower Shield has a qlvl of 20. Ugh. So there was going to be zero chance of me purchasing a Holy Tower Shield of the Tiger from Wirt at clvl 18. You must be at least clvl 20 to pick up a Tower Shield from Wirt. And don't even think about picking up a Gothic Shield - it has a qlvl of 23.

The best you could do at clvl 18 is a Kite Shield. Blah, even with perfect affixes, a Holy Kite Shield would have less AC than my current Awesome Tower Shield. A perfect Holy Kite Shield would only have ~40 AC.

By now, this was starting to get quite interesting to me. I was always under the (wrong, it seems) assumption that a Holy Tower Shield of the Tiger is possible from Wirt from clvl 18-21. This is sort of what Bolty's High Level Warrior Guide implies. But I guess I was just reading it wrong. My mistake, I suppose, for assuming too much.

So when is the best clvl to buy a Holy Tower Shield of the Tiger?

Good question - back to Jarulf I went.

In section 3.9.4, it states that Wirt can offer prefixes and suffixes with a qlvl in the range of ilvl to 2*ilvl. As stated above, ilvl is defined as clvl.

The prefix "Holy" has a qlvl of 35. The suffix "of the Tiger" has a qlvl of 21.

There is no possibility of a lower "of the Mammal" type shield. The next lowest +Life suffix is "of the Wolf", which has a qlvl of 15. Therefore "Holy" (qlvl 35) and "of the Wolf" (qlvl 15) fail to meet the ilvl to 2*ilvl criteria. 35 is more than twice 15.

There is also no possibility of a higher "of the Mammal" type shield. The next highest +Life suffix is "of the Lion" and is not available on shields.

The reason why you have to be at least clvl 18 to buy a "Holy" prefixed item is now readily apparent. At clvl 17, the highest qlvl buyable at Wirt is 34. At 18, the qlvl of "Holy" (which is 35) comes into range.

And now it's also apparent why clvl 21 is the highest clvl you can be to purchase a Holy/Tiger shield. At clvl 22, "of the Tiger" ceases to be a valid Wirt item. This is because at that clvl, Wirt can only offer items in the qlvl range of 22 to 44.

The best (and only) character levels to be at to buy a Holy Tower Shield of the Tiger from Wirt is either 20 or 21. You must be at least 20 to purchase a Tower Shield as a base item from Wirt. But you may be no higher than 21, otherwise "of the Tiger" ceases to be a valid suffix when combined with the prefix "Holy".

2 newbie questions - Bolty - 05-11-2003

Zenda,May 10 2003, 05:45 AM Wrote:Don't fairly experienced D1 players know this by themselves? Perhaps you should take a look in Jarulfs Guide while not fighting runners, to find out more about this.
*falls over laughing*

-Bolty

2 newbie questions - dfn - 05-11-2003

Thank you very much, the Langolier! That helped a lot :)
I just skimmed the section on prefixes/suffixes and found out what can and can't appear on various equipment.

I haven't really looked at the pricing section yet, but I assume the reason something like godly plate of the Whale can't appear legitimately in the game is because the pref/suf qlevel is too high for the dungeon, and the price would be too high for Wirt to sell?

Thanks again!!

2 newbie questions - SteinHerz - 05-11-2003

dfn,May 11 2003, 08:24 AM Wrote:I haven't really looked at the pricing section yet, but I assume the reason something like godly plate of the Whale can't appear legitimately in the game is because the pref/suf qlevel is too high for the dungeon, and the price would be too high for Wirt to sell?
Roger that.

The highest qlvl affix that can be theoratically dropped is 34. That because the highest mlvl a boss is based on is 30 ( Like Sir Gorash, for instance ).

Still, since there are no qlvl 34 affixes, the highest qlvl affix you can get with a boss is "Emerald", which is qlvl 31.

Also, your other supposition is correct. Wirt's price cap is 135K GP, which makes several other items commonly duplicated impossible to be generated in Classic Diablo, such as Merciless//Heavens LWB.

2 newbie questions - dfn - 05-12-2003

Thanks, SteinHerz. I think I'm slowly getting the hang of this...


Just for kicks, I started looking for a Holy Tower Shield of the Tiger at Wirt, because my Warrior just hit 20. I spent over an hour creating games, and just going straight to Wirt. Didn't even see one shield. All swords and maces, except 2 occurances of an armor piece, and 2 occurances of crowns. I wonder how "random" Wirt really is :angry: ... I think randomness is screwing me. At this rate, Diablo 3 will be released before I see my shield hehe
Think I'll just stick to finding stuff form monsters :)

2 newbie questions - Yogi_Baar - 05-12-2003

I did the same thing when my warrior was 20. Loads and loads of Wirt runs. I did find a holy/tiger shield, but it was a small shield. Figures. I did get a nice emerald/tiger though, so at least that's something.

One annoying thing with Wirt is that the little prick is so far from the starting point. I kinda realized that doing Wirt runs was IMHO useless, unless you're an aspiring duelist (dueler?).

2 newbie questions - SteinHerz - 05-12-2003

dfn,May 12 2003, 09:05 AM Wrote:Just for kicks, I started looking for a Holy Tower Shield of the Tiger at Wirt, because my Warrior just hit 20.  I spent over an hour creating games, and just going straight to Wirt.
If you allow me to advice you, it doesn't worth to shop specifically for HSOT. A HSOT can have 4 more AC than an Awesome/Tiger, which doesn't make a big difference, and it is much easier to shop at Griz for ASOT. I have shopped massively and the little bastard never offered me a single HSOT in the Tower Shield form.

Still, don't quit shopping. There are numerous specific and useful items that can be purchased with a clvl 20 char, like:

At Grizmart:
-Jade/Garnet Shield of Brilliance
-Jade Bow of Swiftness
-Massive Bow of Swiftness

At Wirtmart:
-Obsidian Shirt/Cap of the Mammoth
-Emerald/Tiger Shield

Also, some specific and interesting items that could fit on some character setups:

At Grizmart:
-Jade Shield of the Moon
-Jade Cap/Shirt of Stability

At Wirtmart:
-Holy GH of Harmony

I could think of more, later I might add.

2 newbie questions - Elite - 05-12-2003

Yes I have done many shopping trips in my time. I've found all of which you mention, accept holy/tiger and the jade/stab. I did see one, never bought it. I wish I did. Right now I'm on the hunt for jade/stab helm and obs/mamoth crown.

Question, isn't a Godly plate of the Whale possible in breast plate?

2 newbie questions - SteinHerz - 05-13-2003

Elite,May 12 2003, 10:54 PM Wrote:Question, isn't a Godly plate of the Whale possible in breast plate?
It isn't, it exceeds the price cap.