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+--- Thread: I got lucky (/thread-11279.html)
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I got lucky - MERCILESS - 05-26-2003
I have been experimenting with different armours, amulets, staff's, swords ect. and encountered a character named 'Zhar The Mad' on level 8.
I was having difficulty figuring him out the 1st few attempts in combat, basically he out smarted me with his dissapearing capabilities and resistance to certain magic's. But to my surprise I 'cornered' him and he could no longer re-appear anywhere but directly in front of me which was right in one of the corners. I threw a couple fireballs at him and struck him a few times with a 'ravens staff' and he was destroyed.
Lucky for me I trapped him in a corner or I wouldn't have been able to beat him. >>>> If any of you can remember that far back I would like to know what tactic's you used to kill him.
Great game...thanks
I got lucky - Fragbait - 05-26-2003
Yes, cornering is a common strategy to get rid of several monsters: Advocates(and all other teleporting mages), Witches(if you cannot stunlock them (yet)), Goat Archers.
Playing Hellfire, too: Lichs & Arch Lichs, Hellbats, Necromorbs and Torchants.
Could have forgotten some.
Greetings, Fragbait
I got lucky - Kasreyn - 05-26-2003
When "teleporting" monsters vanish, what actually happens (in game terms), is they disappear, move really fast to a new location, then reappear - they can NOT move through solid objects like the player's teleport!
Now, if you hold the shift button and left click, you'll make an attack without moving. Here's a common tactic.
A Diagrammed Guide to Corner Trapping
T = Teleporting monster
Y = You
- and | = walls
. = space
We start in this position:
|.....................................
|.....................................
|....................Y...............
|.....................................
|.....................................
|.............T......................
|.....................................
|.....................................
|.....................................
|.....................................
|__________________
You approach the teleporter, and he will usually retreat to the wall:
|.....................................
|.....................................
|.....................................
|.....................................
|.....................................
|.....................................
|...........Y........................
|.....................................
|.....................................
|____T______________
Now chase him into the corner:
|.....................................
|.....................................
|.....................................
|.....................................
|.....................................
|.....................................
|.............Y......................
|__T________________
You should wind up in this position:
|....................
|....................
|....................
|.Y................
|T_________
Where you are directly diagonal, adjacent to the victim. Hold down the shift button, and keep swinging even if the enemy disappears. When you have him in the corner like this, his AI will cause him to try to flee into the wall, so he doesn't move at all. Even when he's invisible he's still there, and you can even hit him with some things while invisible. As long as you hold shift and stay in that spot, he will never escape (but of course if he's too nasty for you to handle he can certainly try to kill you!).
Hope this set of diagrams helps you to deal with future teleporters. There'll be plenty in Hell, I'll warn you. ;-)
-Kasreyn
P.S. Soon you may face a type of disappearing monster called Illusion Weavers. These have a totally different AI and the above tactic will not work reliably! If you face them, save and then try to beat them on your own. If you're stumped, post again here or IM me at AOL Instant Messenger: LordKasreyn
-Kasreyn
I got lucky - Fragbait - 05-26-2003
Nice to know. I always thought they get stuck in the corners because it is 50:50 for their AI whether to go up or down/ left or right.
So I was wrong... Well. :D
Nice Work.
Greetings, Fragbait
I got lucky - Something Dutch - 05-26-2003
Btw: if you happen to find a weapon of haste, you might want to keep it in your inventory for mages like Zhar. A haste weapon is the only possible way to prevent mages from teleporting away (and stonecurse offcourse). My lvl 40 warrior is switching swords like crazy trying to make things easier for himself:) The other opponents can be stunned with any weapon, if u do enough damage that is.
I got lucky - MERCILESS - 05-26-2003
Kasreyn,May 26 2003, 07:38 AM Wrote:When "teleporting" monsters vanish, what actually happens (in game terms), is they disappear, move really fast to a new location, then reappear - they can NOT move through solid objects like the player's teleport!Thank you Kasreyn.
Now, if you hold the shift button and left click, you'll make an attack without moving. Here's a common tactic.
A Diagrammed Guide to Corner Trapping
T = Teleporting monster
Y = You
- and | = walls
. = space
We start in this position:
|.....................................
|.....................................
|....................Y...............
|.....................................
|.....................................
|.............T......................
|.....................................
|.....................................
|.....................................
|.....................................
|__________________
You approach the teleporter, and he will usually retreat to the wall:
|.....................................
|.....................................
|.....................................
|.....................................
|.....................................
|.....................................
|...........Y........................
|.....................................
|.....................................
|____T______________
Now chase him into the corner:
|.....................................
|.....................................
|.....................................
|.....................................
|.....................................
|.....................................
|.............Y......................
|__T________________
You should wind up in this position:
|....................
|....................
|....................
|.Y................
|T_________
Where you are directly diagonal, adjacent to the victim. Hold down the shift button, and keep swinging even if the enemy disappears. When you have him in the corner like this, his AI will cause him to try to flee into the wall, so he doesn't move at all. Even when he's invisible he's still there, and you can even hit him with some things while invisible. As long as you hold shift and stay in that spot, he will never escape (but of course if he's too nasty for you to handle he can certainly try to kill you!).
Hope this set of diagrams helps you to deal with future teleporters. There'll be plenty in Hell, I'll warn you. ;-)
-Kasreyn
P.S. Soon you may face a type of disappearing monster called Illusion Weavers. These have a totally different AI and the above tactic will not work reliably! If you face them, save and then try to beat them on your own. If you're stumped, post again here or IM me at AOL Instant Messenger: LordKasreyn
-Kasreyn
Yes, I understand your diagram....THANK YOU. I am eager to encounter my next teleporting enemy so that I can try this tactic intentionally, as opposed to getting lucky my 1st time.
This is the type of instruction that will better help me succeed this game, thanks again
need to be clued in here....what does 'AI' stand for
I got lucky - MERCILESS - 05-26-2003
Something Dutch,May 26 2003, 01:48 PM Wrote:Btw: if you happen to find a weapon of haste, you might want to keep it in your inventory for mages like Zhar. A haste weapon is the only possible way to prevent mages from teleporting away (and stonecurse offcourse). My lvl 40 warrior is switching swords like crazy trying to make things easier for himself:) The other opponents can be stunned with any weapon, if u do enough damage that is.I havnt found a weapon of 'Haste' yet but will definately keep it once I get it, Thanks SD!
I got lucky - LemmingofGlory - 05-26-2003
"Artificial Intelligence" also describes the phenomenon present in public games known as "idiots." While they may act like sentient beings, their true nature is that of an artificial being much like the Borg on Star Trek. Rather than assimilating knowledge unknown to them, idiots attempt to stamp out knowledge foreign to them. There is no known cure for the condition.
I got lucky - Draconis - 05-26-2003
However, only a warrior using a sword/club with "haste"(or "speed") can stunlock a teleporting enemy. Also a rogue with any type of bow can, but a mage cannot with any weapon.
I got lucky - Nystul - 05-27-2003
A warrior with a bow can also achieve "virtual stunlock" against advocates and their ilk. They would be fast enough to teleport away if they chose to do so, but as long as nobody is close to them they choose to cast fireballs instead. And they are not fast enough to cast a fireball before the next arrow arrives. Thus, if every arrow hits and stuns, it will be as good as stunlock. The main problem with this is getting enough bow damage to stun consistently.
I got lucky - !!SaLtMaN!! - 05-27-2003
With my mage, I don't like to brag but I'm experienced in that I know where the monster is going to teleport, it comes out of my instinct and experience of where they went before. I can shoot the fireball somewhere and the teleporter will go there and die!
I got lucky - diablo1ks - 05-27-2003
!!SaLtMaN!!,May 2 Wrote:With my mage, I don't like to brag but I'm experienced in that I know where the monster is going to teleport, it comes out of my instinct and experience of where they went before. I can shoot the fireball somewhere and the teleporter will go there and die!>People on this forum play too much diablo ! (Not that i don't)
>By the way do you by any chance dream about diablo ? :lol:
I got lucky - Yogi_Baar - 05-27-2003
Not that I have anything against you bragging (even if you say you didn't want to, you still did) about your experience and your instinct, the fact remains that mage teleporting is very predictable and, well, repetitive.
So while your instinct has a chance to show itself off the first time you play the game and encounter mages, after that first time it all comes down to a case of "monkey see, monkey do", or as you put it, experience. All that is of course just my humble opinion.
I got lucky - Elite - 05-28-2003
Quote:With my mage, I don't like to brag but I'm experienced in that I know where the monster is going to teleport, it comes out of my instinct and experience of where they went before.
Really? That's impressive I must admit. Finaly I have someone I can relate with. I can honestly say I know where the mage Zhar or Laz is going too. Accept instead of using "Instinct" I just watch where the mages light radius is while in teleport.
I got lucky - Something Dutch - 05-28-2003
I was wondering why mages sometimes seem to be teleporting but then appear on the exact same spot. And suddenly it struck me that there had to be a system for this:
- Standing next to them is no good, they will teleport away.
- 1 or 2 tiles distance when they teleport won't work either.
- BUT ... when reaching the tile next to them EXACTLY when u see the teleport animation:):):) haha sitting ducks
It's abit tricky to get the timing right, but it works every time when done right. What i do now is: move towards them (1 tile distance) and move away 1/2 tiles when u KNOW they will teleport, then quickly go stand next to the bastards. $$$
For my warrior (with lvl 1 teleport spell) this is definitely a breakthrough, i don't even use my haste sword nowadays.
Hard to believe that nobody noticed this, so lemme know if i'm right;)
I got lucky - !!SaLtMaN!! - 05-28-2003
Elite,May 28 2003, 12:15 AM Wrote:Accept instead of using "Instinct" I just watch where the mages light radius is while in teleport.I'm not talking about the bosses, those are REALLY easy because of light radius. The normal monsters have no light radius so it's probably harder.
And in response to MERCILESS' picture show... I thought everyone knew that, they can't move away if they're in a corner and you're directly diagonal of them, it's just natural.
Something_Dutch, are you talking about right when they are about to teleport, you swing? cuz I don't think it's really a breakthrough there. But correct me if I'm wrong.
I got lucky - the Langolier - 05-28-2003
That is correct, Dutch.
It is usually a bit tedious, however, to force that to happen rather than just telekill/corner/whatever. It's really just convenient when you approach a mage and they teleport prematurely, causing them to reappear on the same tile. Remember, mages won't begin to teleport until you have hit them, so it is easy to walk up to them (or tele advocates) and lock them until they die. You really don't even need teleport for them, especially for the weakest of them.
I got lucky - MERCILESS - 05-28-2003
!!SaLtMaN!!,May 2 Wrote:I'm not talking about the bosses, those are REALLY easy because of light radius. The normal monsters have no light radius so it's probably harder.In response to your comment, I was'nt aware :huh: that they couldnt teleport through 'solid objects'. For example....my Warrior.
And in response to MERCILESS' picture show... I thought everyone knew that, they can't move away if they're in a corner and you're directly diagonal of them, it's just natural.
Something_Dutch, are you talking about right when they are about to teleport, you swing? cuz I don't think it's really a breakthrough there. But correct me if I'm wrong.
I got lucky - Elite - 05-29-2003
I thought I may add...
This most probably won't help you much. And perhaps you already have known. However to watchers, readers, and lurkers who didn't know, consider it another feather in your cap.
To track a mage, they do not go through solid objects (such as walls, barrels, barriers ect...). Instead, of teleporting as they are referted to as doing, they are simply going invisable and quickly moving to another tile. This results them to be a little more predictable. This is further shown while watching Lazurus as you are able to watch his light radius run along walls and behind objects, such as out of his room and around the corner.
I got lucky - Something Dutch - 05-30-2003
Saltman, no swinging involved;) Just make sure you reach the tile next to the mage right after he started his teleport.