Quote:Personally, I think that they (and medical professionals in general) invent diseases not necessarily for that, but mainly because they do not want to admit that they know very little about what really makes us tick, physically and even more psychologically. This makes them sound more important, initially only to themselves, but with enough exposure to everyone around them.
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Quote:PPP and PPD are two seperate issues. are you implying that their numbers on PPP are lower than you've read elsewhere? PPD is the more common and less drastic disorder so obviously it would afflict more individuals than PPP.

Quote:A very bold statement. I think physically they know really a lot. And the rate in which new things about our physical en psychological state are discovered is immense. I am of the opinion that especially in the western countries a lot is known.

If you blame them for not knowing everything....well...can be..but doesn't make sense to do.

@occhi......I would pay thousands of euros to get a shrinck to make me sane again

Quote:You did get my check, right?
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Quote:A very bold statement. I think physically they know really a lot. And the rate in which new things about our physical en psychological state are discovered is immense. I am of the opinion that especially in the western countries a lot is known.

If you blame them for not knowing everything....well...can be..but doesn't make sense to do.

Quote:I tend to check multiple sources to co-oberate the information I find. In the case of PPD and PPP, all the sites I read, and none linked to the others, had essentially the same information. Some covered it more in depth than others.

The fact is, to make a truly informed opinion you have to do research. From looking at the general attitudes and opinions on this topic, few people have bothered to actually research the issue at hand and the root causes.

So, I suggest again to you and others, go out and do some research on this before spouting off an opinion that shows that you are uninformed. An informed opinion always trumps an uninformed opinion, and simply, most the posters in this thread are making uninformed opinions.

Quote:Let's say you're right for the sake of argument. Does that mean that just like animals, we just give in to our urges and emotions? We are not capable of controlling them at all, if they are strong enough? What's the difference then, between this case and let's say Jeffrey Daumer? Should he have been also put in a psycho ward, since obviously he was far from normal also? There's often a reason as to why people do unspeakable things, a reason for those people to have become like they are. Molestation during childhood, some other type of trauma, etc etc etc. Many people go through something very tough in their life and it often leaves them not exactly perfectly fine. Many are born or acquire some sort of psychosis. Only a few of them go on to do something that destroys the lives of others. I attribute that to a lack of self-control and general worthlessness as human beings on the part of the latter. You attribute it to a medical condition. Ok, that is a very big difference between conservatives and liberals. Accountability vs. excuses.
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Quote:So, you still hold to your opinion that mental disorders are less real then physical health problems. (See - Pete's schoolbus).

Quote:Let's say you're right for the sake of argument. Does that mean that just like animals, we just give in to our urges and emotions? We are not capable of controlling them at all, if they are strong enough? What's the difference then, between this case and let's say Jeffrey Daumer? Should he have been also put in a psycho ward, since obviously he was far from normal also? There's often a reason as to why people do unspeakable things, a reason for those people to have become like they are. Molestation during childhood, some other type of trauma, etc etc etc. Many people go through something very tough in their life and it often leaves them not exactly perfectly fine. Many are born or acquire some sort of psychosis. Only a few of them go on to do something that destroys the lives of others. I attribute that to a lack of self-control and general worthlessness as human beings on the part of the latter. You attribute it to a medical condition. Ok, that is a very big difference between conservatives and liberals. Accountability vs. excuses.
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Quote:Ok, I have a task for you then if you think that urges and emotions are so easy to control. I want you to, starting tomorrow morning when you wake, not eat any food for the next three days, only drink water. See if you can control the urge to eat for 3 days time. See if you can resist the urges your body keeps throwing at you to eat something and see if you're self control can override it. I'm betting that you'll fail that task.

Quote:Done it. When I was 15, I realized that I was about 10-15 pounds overweight. I decided to do something about it, as this was having a detrimental effect on my fledgling personal life. So, I decided to do something about it over the course of the summer. I started my regiment by not eating anything for 4 days. The first 2 days were very hard, but after that I got used to it and could have continued if my mother did not basically order me to eat something as she was getting concerned.

Just because it is difficult to control yourself, does not mean it is impossible.
Don't make bets without being reasonably sure you can win them.

You don't have to believe me, naturally. It's a small matter.

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Quote:What about the other aspects of my post, you seem to totally have ignored those. Tell me, can you control yourself if your child is going to die and there is nothing that you can do about it? You and I both know the answer to that, so quit going on about this self control crap. Tell me that you have never let your emotions get away with you when someone you loved was hurt and you lashed out against the one(s) causing that pain?

Recognize that there is far more going on than your narrow minded view point. An open mind is willing to look around and get the answers, a closed mind is unwilling to budge. Your comments show that you have a closed mind and can't handle it when presented with a chance to learn more about a situtation because it may change your narrowminded view point.

Quote:Tell me, can you control yourself if your child is going to die and there is nothing that you can do about it?

Quote:Done it. When I was 15, I realized that I was about 10-15 pounds overweight. I decided to do something about it, as this was having a detrimental effect on my fledgling personal life. So, I decided to do something about it over the course of the summer. I started my regiment by not eating anything for 4 days. The first 2 days were very hard, but after that I got used to it and could have continued if my mother did not basically order me to eat something as she was getting concerned.

Just because it is difficult to control yourself, does not mean it is impossible.
Don't make bets without being reasonably sure you can win them.

You don't have to believe me, naturally. It's a small matter.

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Quote:I'll take the option of disbelief, then -- the witness that you can barely restrain yourself from posting every hour or so would not give me confidence you would have suitable will power in other aspects of your life.

Quote:Frankly, I did not read the rest of that post, heh. Too lazy. As far as the current question raised (after grudgingly reading the other one more or less fully). C'mon, you're kidding, right? I would not leave the house without my child. If I die, I die. Period. In a RL situation, you could never be 1000% sure that there is not even a .000001% chance that you could save your child. And even if somehow I knew 1000% that nothing could be done, I don't think I would have much desire to leave anyway. See, this is why the human race has evolved to this point. Parents protecting their young and giving them a chance to live at all costs. Most mothers have that instict naturally, most fathers develop it over time. To not only not have that instict, but to have the exact opposite is inhuman.

This is what I mean about liberals. It's all about you, first and foremost. All your values are f....d up.
Edit: Yes, I know that this *is* an "effing parent" type of answer. You got a problem with that?
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Quote:I sure as hell wouldn't try to cause my child to die by drowning her, or him, in the bathtub, which is what this whole thread is about in the first place.

Drowning not just one, but FIVE, of your own kids, your own flesh and blood, in a bathtub, one after the other, and chasing a few of them around the house when they realized what was going on and tried to flee . . . you see, even children have an instinct for self preservation.

If someone was trying to kill my kids, I am not sure if I'd be in control, or a raving loony, but I know how to swing a stick, bat, or fire a weapon, depending on the tools at hand.

Killing people is not necessarily an act of pure irrationality. It depends on the killer, and on the circumstances. Methodically rounding up your kids to drown them used to be called some very simple words:

Evil, Murder, Manslaughter, Infanticide, Filicide.

Mad dogs are put down, so should Filicidal maniacs.

There, we are back on topic, so let's take this PPD and PPP and PPPark it. :whistling:

Occhi

Quote:And she was so F'ed in the head that she didn't know right from wrong Occhi. We both know what she did was wrong, but she didn't. That's where all this tragedy comes from, 5 children lost their lives and their mother is so screwed up that she couldn't realize what she was doing was wrong.

The fact of the matter is, she is being put down in a way. She will spend the rest of her life staring at white walls never really seeing the outside world. For all practical purposes she's already dead. She's been removed from society.

Who knows, maybe medicine will find a cure for her and maybe one day she can be productive in society, but I doubt it. Only time will tell if that comes to pass.

Quote:I live in Texas. We have the death penalty. We often use it. Why not in her case? I am not keen on my tax dollars being used to allow her to use up good people's air. However, I suspect plenty of bleeding hearts here in Texas don't mind, so it probably comes out in the wash. They pay taxes too.

No excuse you can offer me mitigates her vile crime. If you want to hang her husband as an accomplice for deliberately and purposely depriving her of proper medication, I doubt I'd argue. Hang him too, as an accomplice. Hang them both, and help remove stupidity and worthlessness from the gene pool.

Call me heartless if you like. Some people just need killing.

Occhi

Quote:Mental disorders are more of a grey area than physical ones. We're relying as much on guesswork as we do on facts, simply because out of all of our organs, we know the least about the human brain.

Wait a sec. Didn't I put you on my /ignore list?

Fixed.
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