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The Matrix - Dozer - 05-16-2003
about the "layered matrices" theory - The Brothers wouldn't do it becuase it's already been done in The 13th Floor :) (It came out just after the matrix, go watch it - it uses that same thing)
The Matrix - the Langolier - 05-16-2003
Dozer,May 16 2003, 12:18 PM Wrote:about the "layered matrices" theory - The Brothers wouldn't do it becuase it's already been done in The 13th Floor :) (It came out just after the matrix, go watch it - it uses that same thing)Ok...
Then explain how Neo manages to stop sentianls in their tracks. If you want an analogy, go read up on how microwaves work. Once you have done this, cook something in the microwave and try to turn it off with your mind. You can't? Why not, I mean you understand their code, there is no reason you can't. Well, OK, maybe you aren't the one. But surely there is someone on this planent that knows enough about the microwave's code that they can do this. Layered matrix's would also explain how Smith, a program, is able to download himself out of the matrix and into a human body.
The Matrix - Taem - 05-16-2003
Quote:layered matrix's would also explain how Smith, a program, is able to download himself out of the matrix and into a human body.
Good point! That is one thing I found a little difficult to accept.
There were three things I did not like about the movie:
1.) The pointless love-scene between trinity and neo intermixed with a huge dance scene with the citizens of zion. WTF was that all about? I understand the importance of neo mentioning his dream to trinity, however, they could have done it more tactfully. That scene surved no purpose other than to feed teenage sexual desires, thus boosting sales.
2.) The music was totally wrong for certian scenes and perfect in others. I am an avid fan of how music fits in with movies, and they did a pretty poor job with some of the tracks they choose and some of the scenes, IMO.
3.) TO BE CONTINUED... Need I say more? The first matrix left me feeling fulfilled because it invoked feelings of accomplishment. When someone tells you, "This is the way its going to happen," and "You can't do this or that," you feel angry and want to prove them wrong, which is what neo did in the first movie regarding fate vs choice and freewill vs control. That could have been the end of the entire series had they choose not to make a second and third movie. This movie failed to invoke any grandios feelings, however, it was still well worth my money (if it was on TV and I never knew about the matrix movies, it would of been cool enough to watch :) ). I was very unhappy with the ending thou! They should of just faded out to black from the scene with neo and the infected "agent smith" on the tables instead of saying, "To Be Continued". Just my opinion.
The Matrix - Cybit - 05-16-2003
I thought Smith using the EMP is what stopped the sentinels?
The Matrix - Dozer - 05-16-2003
:angry: Read my other post.......... It's not layered, the "real world" is part of the matrix, I think.....
The Matrix - Swarmalicious - 05-16-2003
the Langolier,May 16 2003, 02:31 PM Wrote: Well, OK, maybe you aren't the one.
Neo can do it because he still is The One.
:)
The Matrix - Swarmalicious - 05-16-2003
MEAT,May 16 2003, 03:01 PM Wrote:1.) The pointless love-scene between trinity and neo intermixed with a huge dance scene with the citizens of zion. WTF was that all about?
I think this did a decent job of depicting humans as visceral, organic mammals. Some of those shakin' hips and muddy feet with ankle braclets sure got me thinking about making babies. ;)
Coupled with the Merovingian's little cake-speech about how humans are essentially out of control since the real reason we are here is to like, have sex basically - it all serves to illustrate our difference from the machines (and elludes to our 'purpose', if you will, which is to make more humans and experience life). ...perhaps.
Quote:2.) The music was totally wrong for certian scenes and perfect in others
Inclined to agree, a bit.
Quote:3.) TO BE CONTINUED...
Um... its "To be conlcuded". :P
The Matrix - WarBlade - 05-16-2003
Dozer,May 17 2003, 07:09 AM Wrote:Now the only thing I can't explain is why Neo goes into a coma after stopping the sentinels. Any thoughts?Neo has plugs in his head. These connect to a neural interface that formed a pivotal link in exerting control over the machine (and Smith's control over the man). A shorting out machine at such close range and with something conductive connected directly into his brain it's a wonder he didn't suffer more than just a coma. ;)
The Matrix - Dozer - 05-16-2003
Hahahah, that doesn't fit with my conspiracy theory though :lol: !
The Matrix - Hammerskjold - 05-16-2003
Where Morpheus asks Neo,"You think that's air you're breathing?"
>Jumping onto a tuck that is moving means that you were initially moving at 10 mph then instantaneously began to move at 65 mph. There is a force associated with this, and it would be immense.
If you accept the convention that in the matrix certain rules can be bent, and some can be broken, physics is no thang. It might have to do more with actively controlling those perceived forces that tires up ones mental muscles.
>BTW, the force in this case is the friction between the truck and the character's feet. If they are able to ignore this, why can't they ignore the force of a punch? They just seemed to choose which rules they could break and when. My main gripe is the consistancy.
Perhaps because it takes a certain amount of mental concentration to bend or break certain rules in the matrix. You might be able to bend gravity or other forces with your mind, but constant bombardment of new information (agents fists entering into face area...NOW!) can disrupt that concentration, and consistency.
But hey that's only my take on it.
The Matrix - Swarmalicious - 05-17-2003
Hammerskjold,May 16 2003, 06:39 PM Wrote:Perhaps because it takes a certain amount of mental concentration to bend or break certain rules in the matrix. You might be able to bend gravity or other forces with your mind, but constant bombardment of new information (agents fists entering into face area...NOW!) can disrupt that concentration, and consistency.I like that take :)
But hey that's only my take on it.
The Matrix - yangman - 05-17-2003
What if all the human batteries are implemented with a chip that allows limited communication to the system?
Hey, it's a long shot, but I havn't read/seen/heard any proof that states otherwise. :P
The Matrix - WarBlade - 05-17-2003
:huh:
Well judging by the first film the assumption is indeed that all the human batteries are hooked up to the system. Is there any evidence anywhere that suggests there are 'battery people' not mentally plugged in?
The Matrix - Hammerskjold - 05-17-2003
Spoiler alert for those who haven't seen it yet.
>Layered matrix's would also explain how Smith, a program, is able to download himself out of the matrix and into a human body.
If it isn't layered matrices, imo Smith would still be able to do it. He can now take over someones mind, but the location of their body might be more important to him. I'm guessing from that 100 Smith clone brawl, he could take over almost anyone's mind while in the matrix, but what good would that do him if their physical body is in one of the human pod farms? (Assuming it isn't 2 layers of the matrix, and those pod farms are the "real" world.)
He scored a jackpot when he got that mind who's body was in one of the Rebel scums, I mean unplugged human batteries, hovership. Because that poor schmucks body resides in a hovership that can take him to Zion. Ding ding ding ding ding! Better than a hawaiian cruise, especially since Smith wants so badly to go into the Zion rave like a turned away clubber.
>Then explain how Neo manages to stop sentianls in their tracks.
I was more curious on what Neo *is* after the Architect gobbledygook speech. The architect\Freud lookalike said Neo was something like an anomaly, with previous incarnations. Incarnations as in the human terms, or simply a euphamism for version #? Especially after the little talk with the Oracle, and the councilman in Zion. So what exactly is Neo, human with machine like abilities? (Trinity in Matrix1: "You moved like they do") Machine with human feelings? A hybrid?
Hell for all I know the layered \non layered matrices is something to distract us while the real important question slips by. Wouldn't anyone notice Smith's revulsion to the orgy of dancing flesh during the Zion rave? ;) Let's see, a hovership crewmate who just came into port, and Zion is holding a party like it's 1999. And this guy probably just wants to be alone and plotting. I guess that's part of our human weakness. Jiggle some flesh for distraction and you can get away with murder.
The Matrix - Swarmalicious - 05-17-2003
These are some points of interest that have been buzzing around my head... let's hear the retorts: :)
None are conclusive, by any means...
there are no accidents:
1 - If the architecht was telling the truth, the prophecy is a 'plan' by the system. Therefore, the architect knew Neo would have to make a choice between saving Trinity & returning to the source...
IF THAT WAS PLANNED, then the rusted latch (that ends up killing the other ship members, and eventually leading to Trinity having to enter the Matrix) was no accident - but how?
Interesting that Morpheus's pump up speech says 'there are no accidents' exactly when they show the rusted latch...
2 - Did Persephone infest Neo with some code when they kiss? (the sexy restaurant girl eats the cake and gets infested similiarly) Why else is she so insistent on him swapping spit with her 'the way he does with Trinity? If it was to give him a 'virus', what was its purpose?
3 - Who is the mystery guy in the restaurant? (look carefully when they first enter)
4 - The actor who plays Boba (Jenga) Fett has a Cameo. (He's the operator who closes the gates after the Neb docks) :)
5 - What is Seraph's "Thing that matters most"? I don't think its merely the Oracle...
6 - Even though Smith is supposedly a rogue wild card - he plays very crucial parts in the prophecy coming true, by facilitating Neo returning to the source (delays them in the doorway before the bomb can kill them, for one). Is it possible the machines planned all of this? Something else? (Smith's biggest dialogue stressess the importance of "purpose")
The Matrix - Taem - 05-17-2003
Swarmalicious, you have some mind blowing points, but all your points further facilitate the idea of a multi-layered matrix, especially with the rusted latch situation. However, the agent smith take is a bit strange here indeed, as he is no longer part of the matrix, but merely inside it. Could that mean we are all inexorably bound by fate, regardless of the matrixs' overtones that we have choice?
Perhaps, but I caught something interesting the oracle said that I found applies to Christian beliefs. Basically that you have choice to make all your decisions, but you've already made them ahead of time, thus your path is already choosen, so both are true! So when would you of made your choices? Second before the event? Before you were born, still part of a "higher-consciousness"? Regardless, the concept is there: We choose our destiny, then live to fulfill it. Once our lives have been set in motion, their patch cannot be stopped or changed. -Just a thought-
The Matrix - WarLocke - 05-17-2003
Quote:Basically that you have choice to make all your decisions, but you've already made them ahead of time, thus your path is already choosen, so both are true!
No, they aren't. In that case, a person would have the "illusion of choice", but if their actions are preordained, then they're just acting out the parts given to them by fate/God/whatever.
Predestination and Free Will, by definition, are exclusive.
- WL
The Matrix - Nicodemus Phaulkon - 05-17-2003
Quote:6 - Even though Smith is supposedly a rogue wild card - he plays very crucial parts in the prophecy coming true, by facilitating Neo returning to the source (delays them in the doorway before the bomb can kill them, for one). Is it possible the machines planned all of this? Something else? (Smith's biggest dialogue stressess the importance of "purpose")
Neo is "the One". Smith is "the Zero". Binary opposites, dependant upon each other to achieve the final result. Neo was freed, so was Smith. Together, they possess the ability to move beyond the Matrix and establish the new means of existence.
Perhaps Neo's "RL" abilities vs. the Sentinels and Smith's "RL" ability for corruption of human minds are polar opposites expressed for balance? Neo, the man, controls machine. Smith, the machine, controls the man.
Quote:4 - The actor who plays Boba (Jenga) Fett has a Cameo. (He's the operator who closes the gates after the Neb docks)
The fellow in the 'Mech? Ha, I didn't notice the face. I was too busy considering whether it was a ripoff of the Construction suit from Aliens, or a miniature TimberWolf. ;)
Quote:If the architecht was telling the truth, the prophecy is a 'plan' by the system. Therefore, the architect knew Neo would have to make a choice between saving Trinity & returning to the source...
What was more interesting to me was, despite the variety of reactions that were displayed on the monitors throughout that confrontation, when the choice came every last "Neo" walked to his left.
The entire story revolves around so many issues, one of which is fate versus choice. Some of the others that are touched on are the messianic overtones, the "real" versus the "illusion", humanity's chaos and animalistic tendencies versus the machine's order and calm. Each of these is done very nicely, in my opinion; subtlety and not brutal obviousness. I appreciate that.
I enjoyed the film a great deal. However, it's very hard at this point. We're left in the midst of a situation, a conflict and a puzzle. True to the tradition of the trilogy... the "middle" instalment is always the time of the darkest hour, the greatest peril and the most desperate hope.
Thumbs up.
The Matrix - DralaFi - 05-17-2003
I wonder why Neo didn't take Option #3. Kill the Architect, take the door to save Trinity. Matrix collapses with no controling architect. All humans awake. Machines lose power, shut down, humans win.
The Matrix - Dozer - 05-17-2003
Becuase then there couldn't have been a third movie ^^