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Paranoia Runs Deep - eppie - 03-04-2005
Occhidiangela,Mar 3 2005, 05:32 PM Wrote:Aspiring Horror Writer Arrested in High School
The frag pattern from Columbine High School seems to be spreading. I must confess that I don't know a lot of facts in this case, and I have not read what it is the school officials and cops, not to mention his kinfolk, were all upset about . . . but my brain is screaming "what ever happened to the exercise of judgment???"
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The main question that I always have when I read these kind of things, is if somebody is planning some kind of act of violence/terrorism/murder why would this person write these things down......and let other people find it?
In Holland we have this kind of terrorism craze lately. Some politicians received death threats, and everybody now thinks they are in danger, and that the people who wrote these threats are terrorists.....but why would a terrorist write a letter first??? It takes away the whole element of surprise.
Paranoia Runs Deep - TaiDaishar - 03-04-2005
eppie,Mar 4 2005, 05:15 PM Wrote:The main question that I always have when I read these kind of things, is if somebody is planning some kind of act of violence/terrorism/murder why would this person write these things down......and let other people find it?
In Holland we have this kind of terrorism craze lately. Some politicians received death threats, and everybody now thinks they are in danger, and that the people who wrote these threats are terrorists.....but why would a terrorist write a letter first??? It takes away the whole element of surprise.
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The goal of terrorism is not to kill, it's to create terror, thus those letters are from terrorists simply because they created terror, they might or might not try to act upon their threats but that's irrelevent.
On topic: I'm still quite clueless about this, anyone found a good source for this story?
Paranoia Runs Deep - Malakar - 03-04-2005
Nystul,Mar 4 2005, 05:09 AM Wrote:You probably wouldn't be charged with anything, unless you happen to also be a gun collector or have a few bags of fertilizer laying around or something...Heh, I bet he'd be charged with a felony, and get his bail raised to $5000.
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If having fertilizer is going to be used for circumstantial evidence, I'd say that's worse than it being illegal. At least then people who aren't planning to make bombs wouldn't get screwed.
Paranoia Runs Deep - kandrathe - 03-04-2005
Nystul,Mar 4 2005, 04:09 AM Wrote:By local supermarkets you mean the actual supermarkets in your area, right? Then yes, I would say you should be arrested. Surely it would at least justify searching your property and bringing you in for questioning. You probably wouldn't be charged with anything, unless you happen to also be a gun collector or have a few bags of fertilizer laying around or something...
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I found an excerpt from a legal office in NJ describing what "Conspiracy to Commit a Crime" covers;
Quote:A person is guilty of conspiracy with another person or persons to commit a crime if with the purpose of promoting or facilitating its commission he/she:
(SELECT APPROPRIATE SECTION)
(1) Agrees with such other person or persons that they or one or more of them will engage in conduct which constitutes such crime or an attempt or solicitation to commit such crime; or
(2) Agrees to aid such other person or persons in the planning or commission of such crime or of an attempt or solicitation to commit such crime.
A conspiracy to commit the crime of _____ is a crime in itself separate and distinct from the crime of _____. In other words, a defendant may be found guilty of the crime of conspiracy regardless of whether that defendant is guilty or not guilty of the crime of _____.
In order for you to find a defendant guilty of the crime of conspiracy, the state must prove beyond a reasonable doubt the following elements:
(1) That the defendant agreed with another person or persons that they or one or more of them would engage in conduct which constitutes a crime or an attempt or solicitation to commit such crime;
OR
That the defendant agreed to aid another person or persons in the planning or commission of a crime or of an attempt or solicitation to commit such crime.
(2) That the defendant's purpose was to promote or facilitate the commission of the crime of _____.
A person acts purposely with respect to the nature of (his/her) conduct or a result thereof, if it is (his/her) conscious object to engage in conduct of that nature or cause such a result. A person acts purposely with respect to attendant circumstances if (he/she) is aware of the existence of such circumstances or (he/she) believes or hopes that they exist.
There is a difference between writing a story about a crime, and planning or recruiting others to aid you in the crime. The law is pretty clear about the differences. I'm sure many conspirators have attempted in the past to claim that the conspiracy was just a fantasy or a musing, but once you expand your fantasy to the recruitment of others, or material preparations you are "Conspiring to Commit _____".
Paranoia Runs Deep - kandrathe - 03-04-2005
Some more info I found;
Quote:http://www.winchestersun.com/articles/2005...news/news01.txt
By TIM WELDON/Sun Staff Writer
Winchester police have arrested a George Rogers Clark High School junior whom they allege was attempting to organize an armed takeover of the school.
William Poole, 18, of 426 E. Broadway, was arrested at GRCHS Tuesday. Acting on a tip from a family member, police reported that he was attempting to "recruit a gang to take over the school," according to Detective Berl Perdue.
The threat involved the use of weapons, according to Purdue. "He didn't have a gang, but he was attempting to organize one," he said. Purdue added that no threat was made against a specific individual.
GRCHS Principal John Atkins said he could not comment on whether Poole has been in disciplinary trouble at the school due to confidentiality reasons. He did comment that, "I know him."
Police recovered writings in which Poole allegedly attempted to convince other students to participate in an armed takeover. He was being held this morning at the Clark County Detention Center. During a hearing in Clark District Court this morning, Poole's bond was increased from a $1,000 to a $5,000 cash bond based on a prosecution motion.
Atkins said he has been unable to share some information with students and staff about the incident due to the continuing investigation. Classes continued normally Wednesday and today and there have been no problems, Atkins said.
"We did not have any concern that students had weapons at school," he said. "We don't know who's included in this. That's what we're working on, to see if there were other individuals involved. ... We're not sure that there are."
- Managing Editor Jennifer Ginn contributed to this story.
https://secure.townnews.com/winchestersun.c...tters/index.php
Paranoia Runs Deep - Rhydderch Hael - 03-04-2005
eppie,Mar 4 2005, 07:15 AM Wrote:...but why would a terrorist write a letter first??? It takes away the whole element of surprise.Question: What is the minimum number of mines you need to make a minefield?
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Answer: None. Just a sign that says "Danger! Minefield ahead."
"Buy why?" you may ask. Why place a warning sign in the first place?
Because the posted sign isn't showing you where to stay out... it's telling you just exactly where you must go in order to stay safe from the probable(?) minesâ a suggestion that always applies to the minelayer's advantage.
Paranoia Runs Deep - Occhidiangela - 03-04-2005
TaiDaishar,Mar 4 2005, 10:20 AM Wrote:The goal of terrorism is not to kill, it's to create terror, thus those letters are from terrorists simply because they created terror, they might or might not try to act upon their threats but that's irrelevent.
On topic: I'm still quite clueless about this, anyone found a good source for this story?
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Tai, IIRC you live in Israel. I am puzzled at your description of terror.
The aim of a terrorist is to make a policital and social change through force, and the threat of credible force. Terror uses both physical and psychological means to its ends. The credible force is demonstrated in bloody forms to ensure that the terrorist is taken seriously. The aim of killing some explicit targets is implicit to most terrorism, but since terrorist organizations differ in both discipline and scope, as well as goal, it is too much to say that killing is or is not the aim of "terrorists" in general. In some cases you could call it a means, in others an express aim. 17 Novermber in Greece, anyone?
OBL has gone on record with rhetoric saying that All Americans must die. Some of the terrorist organs who aim at forcing change in your country have a goal of wiping Israel from the map. That means killing off a lot of Israeli's, for the express purpose of cleansing the land of "those who we don't want in this place."
Enough. I risk creating a very ugly sub thread if I say anymore.
Occhi
Paranoia Runs Deep - Taem - 03-05-2005
Occhidiangela,Mar 3 2005, 10:32 AM Wrote:Aspiring Horror Writer Arrested in High School
The frag pattern from Columbine High School seems to be spreading. I must confess that I don't know a lot of facts in this case, and I have not read what it is the school officials and cops, not to mention his kinfolk, were all upset about . . . but my brain is screaming "what ever happened to the exercise of judgment???"
Have we let Osama inside of everyone's head? That's a win for him, if he can get Americans to do stupid stuff (NTSA anyone?) and call it reasoned defense against terrorism.
Daniel Boone wept.
Wow, Granny rats out the kid. Is this tough love, or the culmination of years of their grandkid being a werido who is scaring the heck out of them? No details. But narking out your own kin? Something seems to be rotten in the State of Kentucky . . .
As a matter of importance, family loyalty aside, let's take a look at education in Kentucky and ask about priorities.
Poole disputes that he was threatening anyone.
"It didn't mention nobody who lives in Clark County, didn't mention (George Rogers Clark High School), didn't mention no principal or cops, nothing,"
said Poole. "Half the people at high school know me. They know I'm not that stupid, that crazy."
If he is a senior in high school, and if that is a verbatim quote, I'd ask the folks at George Rogers Clark High School, and his family, to consider working on fundamental skills, such as speaking English, as a priority. Fix the basics, eh? He won't learn good grammar in prison.
Should Edgar Allen Poe have been arrested for writing "Telltale Heart?" After all, it was about murder . . . which is a felony in the state of Kentucky, Maryland, et all. :P
Occhi
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Immedialty after reading the first post, I thought it was strange the grandparents turned him in. It made me think they were concerned enough to stop something they viewed as a serious threat. I also wondered where the parents where and figured they probbably werent around so he was most likely a troubled individual. Odd's seemed good to me this kid was up to trouble, then I read the rest of the posts and the follow-ups clarifying the situation. Now it looks like this is one bad kid afterall!
As for that particular law in Kentucky, it sounds like a reasonable law to me and I don't think it restricts into excluding remarks towards any high school or students. Instead I think its meant to protect students by restricting the depictions of high schools or students regarding violence or attempted violence. But who knows how far this law might go? I'm curioius as to the exact wording of this law and if it might be challenged in the Supreme Court.
Paranoia Runs Deep - Rhydderch Hael - 03-05-2005
Occhidiangela,Mar 3 2005, 11:19 AM Wrote:EDIT: From dvorak.org blog . . .Don't rightly know how they do things in Kentucky, but when I was an 18-year old high school senior, our English classes were : A> a full year in term, never a semester; B> not an elective class.
"That said this post shows up on the ZeroIntelligence Blog:
Thatâs my school. Consider this if youâre wondering about the boyâs creditbility: his initial story was that it was a short story for vocational school (yeah, the place where you learn carpentry and welding, not creative writing). Then it switched to an English assignment. Funny thing is, he doesnât have an English class this semester. ...
Maybe granny was right.
Occhi
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Paranoia Runs Deep - Rinnhart - 03-06-2005
As is Stephen King.
Paranoia Runs Deep - Occhidiangela - 03-06-2005
Rhydderch Hael,Mar 5 2005, 06:13 AM Wrote:Don't rightly know how they do things in Kentucky, but when I was an 18-year old high school senior, our English classes were : A> a full year in term, never a semester; B> not an elective class.
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That may have changed, though my HS experience was similar. It occurs to me that the post I read and cited that nugget in was complete nonsense. Saw the same exact prose in three different blogs under three different names.
Hmmmmmmm.
Occhi
Paranoia Runs Deep - Nystul - 03-06-2005
It will vary by location, as some schools do "block scheduling". In this style, pretty much *everything* is taught in semesters, and if the class has to go 2 or 3 hours a day then so be it. It fits in with taking entry-level college classes at the same time, and also gives kids the chance to graduate a semester early for whatever that's worth. Of course that doesn't mean the quote is true, but that it's possible.
It's pretty sad, but it seems like the only firm conclusion of this thread will be: if you want to learn the truth about a news story in this day and age, you practically have to go to the event and do your own investigation. You certainly can't count on anything from weblogs, and frankly local TV news isn't much better, and the national media? We all know how neutral Fox News and BBC are, or how reliably accurate CBS and the New York Times are. We may as well just read the World Weekly News and at least get a few laughs.
Paranoia Runs Deep - whathuh - 03-06-2005
Bam-Bam,Mar 4 2005, 10:00 AM Wrote:It seems to me that the media/blogs, and even many of us (I am not immune) are all too willing to jump to conclusions on partial information colored by our own preconceived notionsI am a very gullible person when it comes to people I respect. However, I tend to take some people as if they were the Arreat Summit. Micheal Moore recently became one of those people. I want to believe everything he says because it would be nice if it were true, but Farenheit 9/11 turned out to be a completely one sided Bush-bashing movie. Now I try my best not to even quote from that movie, because the words were all twisted against Bush. I do firmly agree with Moore in his other movie, Bowling for Columbine, that the media has a tendancy to warp words and display things that will get the most publicity.
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Occhidiangela,Mar 6 2005, 12:28 PM Wrote:It occurs to me that the post I read and cited that nugget in was complete nonsense. Saw the same exact prose in three different blogs under three different names.
As much as I wanted to believe that post, I just know there are too many people out there who would be happy to post some bs story for no reason whatsoever.
Paranoia Runs Deep - Occhidiangela - 03-07-2005
Nystul,Mar 6 2005, 10:50 AM Wrote:It will vary by location, as some schools do "block scheduling". In this style, pretty much *everything* is taught in semesters, and if the class has to go 2 or 3 hours a day then so be it. It fits in with taking entry-level college classes at the same time, and also gives kids the chance to graduate a semester early for whatever that's worth. Of course that doesn't mean the quote is true, but that it's possible.
It's pretty sad, but it seems like the only firm conclusion of this thread will be: if you want to learn the truth about a news story in this day and age, you practically have to go to the event and do your own investigation. You certainly can't count on anything from weblogs, and frankly local TV news isn't much better, and the national media? We all know how neutral Fox News and BBC are, or how reliably accurate CBS and the New York Times are. We may as well just read the World Weekly News and at least get a few laughs.
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I learned in a documentary film that the WWN has the eighth highest circulation in the world.
Full Disclosure: That documentary was "So, I Married an Axe Murderer." If Farenheit 911 is a documentary, so is that funny little Mike Meyers tidbit, which I finally watched. *chortles* I rather enjoyed it.
Occhi