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How I Play my Tank - Kevin - 04-12-2005
Ruvanal,Apr 11 2005, 04:16 PM Wrote:Actually we did test it unintentionally with Ironaya (giantess in the hidden chamber). It was Taunshu that pulled the aggro that you had to use a Taunt to get the attention back with. That came from 3 crits in a string of 4 autoshot hits that did over 1600 damage total. Two of the crits were for over 400 each and the the third crit that made her start to turn was for 600 at which point her attention snapped up from you and she started walking toward me. It was also another crit a little later that started her heading my way again just before we took her out.
And by the way Taunshu had Aspect of the Monkey on during that fight.
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Oh yeah, we did. I lost (though no one but me got hit so I did my job right at least). I was thinking on mobs I could hit harder I might have a better chance, but you would hit them harder too. Though I thought it was after that battle you went perma monkey not before, but I don't doubt you, I doubt my memory. Regardless it was fun. :)
How I Play my Tank - undertow - 04-12-2005
Thawwing Light,Apr 12 2005, 11:56 AM Wrote:We were running with an underleveled group of 2 Shamans, a Mage, and my Warrior.
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This is my first post here on these forums, so hello to everyone.
If the end boss in an instance (Doan in this case) is only a 36+, why would a group such as the above be considered 'underleveled'? I do understand that you're a person short, but I'd consider < lvl 33 to be underleveled for SM library with a good group. Any less than that and you'd start to have problems hitting the mobs and Doan himself.
How I Play my Tank - Ruvanal - 04-12-2005
Gnollguy,Apr 12 2005, 12:34 PM Wrote:Oh yeah, we did. I lost (though no one but me got hit so I did my job right at least). I was thinking on mobs I could hit harder I might have a better chance, but you would hit them harder too. Though I thought it was after that battle you went perma monkey not before, but I don't doubt you, I doubt my memory. Regardless it was fun. :)
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I usually put Taunshu in Monkey for traveling since it seems to still function while mounted. I had forgot to switch out when we started and only noticed I was still on AoM at the end of that fight.
I played with switching back and forth some, but found that if I stayed with AoH that I tended to almost always pull aggro, even off of Orion a lot of the time. That was when I went primarily with AoM on. I did switch to AoH in a few of the harder fights after the main target was down at least a third of their life. Also having AoM on as the default there made it easier at times to off-tank a mob for a bit while still concentrating fire on a main target on the other side of the room.
How I Play my Tank - Ynir - 04-12-2005
I have always wondered if different modes of pulling generate different aggro radii within the mob group.
My guess is that all weapons are equivalent in this regard. Surely the noise from a gun is for entertainment purposes, and does not affect the number of mobs pulled.
Do body pulls generate the same results as using a weapon? If so, whats the point of getting so close?
How I Play my Tank - Olon97 - 04-12-2005
Ynir,Apr 12 2005, 02:19 PM Wrote:I have always wondered if different modes of pulling generate different aggro radii within the mob group.I have had body pulls (which I refer to as Proximity pulls, to distinguish from charging in) get single mob pulls in situations where ranged always get multiples (several places), and at least one place where a body pull got me 4 mobs and a ranged pull got me 2-3 (only recently in DM West).
My guess is that all weapons are equivalent in this regard. Surely the noise from a gun is for entertainment purposes, and does not affect the number of mobs pulled.
Do body pulls generate the same results as using a weapon? If so, whats the point of getting so close?
One thing that helps with body pulls is toggling walk on during the approach so you don't move too fast into multiple mobs' detection radii. Body pulls are often slower to execute than ranged, however, and when you have crowd control overkill is often just not required. I only use that variety of pull on special occasions or where for some reason we have little to no CC options and the mobs don't appear to be linked.
A posessed hunter pet is reported to do an excellent body pull as they have extremely small aggro radius - still haven't ever seen one in action.
How I Play my Tank - playingtokrush - 04-13-2005
Olon97,Apr 12 2005, 04:52 PM Wrote:A posessed hunter pet is reported to do an excellent body pull as they have extremely small aggro radiusHuh. I've never heard anything like that. Is the pet's aggro radius supposedly reduced while using Eyes of the Beast?
How I Play my Tank - Olon97 - 04-13-2005
playingtokrush,Apr 12 2005, 10:40 PM Wrote:Huh. I've never heard anything like that. Is the pet's aggro radius supposedly reduced while using Eyes of the Beast?As I said, haven't had the pleasure of 1st hand expierence with a posessed pet pull. I think the main reason for Eyes of the Beast is to avoid stupid pathing mistakes (ex. when pulling around a corner to get LoS on the casters too - pet won't hug the wall as close as it needs to if just using AI) and to get the spacing and timing just right - even the pet can do a prox pull rather than biting for even less chance of linking up (makes it easier for the tank to peel the mob off the pet too).
How I Play my Tank - Thawwing Light - 04-13-2005
undertow,Apr 12 2005, 01:01 PM Wrote:This is my first post here on these forums, so hello to everyone.
If the end boss in an instance (Doan in this case) is only a 36+, why would a group such as the above be considered 'underleveled'? I do understand that you're a person short, but I'd consider < lvl 33 to be underleveled for SM library with a good group. Any less than that and you'd start to have problems hitting the mobs and Doan himself.
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Hmmm. You're right, that does seem odd. I'm trying to remember exactly why this was so hard. I think I may have the levels on the run off, it was over a month ago...
I think the levels were more like 33 (me, warrior), 34 (1 shaman), 34 (mage), 35 (the other shaman). I know that the shamans hadn't gotten Windfury totem, and that the mage was the only one with real experience in the instance. The main difficulty was that were were shorthanded, and didn't have a real healer, as neither shaman was restoration specced.
I can't remember the details all that well, this run occured at the end of February. The more recent run of the cathedral with a 35 priest, 38 warrior, 38 shaman, and 37 rogue was a more appropriate run to term shorthanded. That one actually did turn out well.
How I Play my Tank - Sinnu - 04-14-2005
playingtokrush,Apr 13 2005, 02:40 AM Wrote:Huh. I've never heard anything like that. Is the pet's aggro radius supposedly reduced while using Eyes of the Beast?
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The pets aggro radius is microscopic. I tested this once with my tiger, KoKo. The Allliance Outriders in the South Barrens had just ridden by, and I had heard that the aggro for pets was smaller... so I popped on Eyes of Beast and was able to run literally at the heels of their mounts without drawing aggro. Normally, that bunch will aggro between 10 and 20 yards (very rough estimate).
I suspect, from that test and other places where I've used KoKo to scout, that the hunter's pet is a very strong tool to solo pull in very tight spots. I'd encourage any high level group with a better than average hunter to test this out... just be prepared to be wiped if the pet, even while on passive, decides to go exploring... gotta get that bug fixed... :blink:
How I Play my Tank - playingtokrush - 04-14-2005
Sinnu,Apr 13 2005, 06:31 PM Wrote:The pets aggro radius is microscopic. I tested this once with my tiger, KoKo. The Allliance Outriders in the South Barrens had just ridden by, and I had heard that the aggro for pets was smaller... so I popped on Eyes of Beast and was able to run literally at the heels of their mounts without drawing aggro. Normally, that bunch will aggro between 10 and 20 yards (very rough estimate). Interesting. So the paranoia over a pet being a level or more under the hunter causing aggro problems in instances and the like is unecessary. I've always been afraid that my pet swinging along my side is increasing my chance to pull something onto the group by accident.
I suspect, from that test and other places where I've used KoKo to scout, that the hunter's pet is a very strong tool to solo pull in very tight spots. I'd encourage any high level group with a better than average hunter to test this out... just be prepared to be wiped if the pet, even while on passive, decides to go exploring... gotta get that bug fixed... :blink:
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Of course, it is possible that a decrease in pet aggro radius occurs only when using Eyes of the Beast. Testing a non-possessed pet's aggro radius would be more difficult. Again, interesting.
How I Play my Tank - Sinnu - 04-14-2005
playingtokrush,Apr 13 2005, 10:35 PM Wrote:Of course, it is possible that a decrease in pet aggro radius occurs only when using Eyes of the Beast. Testing a non-possessed pet's aggro radius would be more difficult. Again, interesting.
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I am nearly certain that the pet has a much higher aggro when not controlled by Eyes. How much larger, I'm not certain.
This shouldn't be too hard to test. One would need a semi-stationary mob that aggros... sleeping lions in the barrens? Set the pet on defensive and tell it to stay. Position yourself so that the sleeping lion is between you and your pet, and that the pet will move a certain distance from the sleeping lion in coming to you, a distance changeable by the angle at which you call your pet to you. When you are in position, tell you pet to follow... he should run to you, past the lion. Find the furthest away (roughly) your pet can be and still trigger the aggro. Then move at that distance with your pet under the effects of Eyes. I'm guessing that the pet will normally aggro the lion at about the same range you will... a few yards. I'm also guessing that under the effects of Eyes, the pet will be able to practically stand on top of the sleeping lion and not draw a thing. Well worth testing... this could add substantial utility to Hunter's in instances, if we can use our pets as ultra-low aggro scouts with the ability to stage a micro pull.
Should probably move the testing of this into a new thread, however. I hate to hi-jack Bolty's tanking manifesto :D
How I Play my Tank - undertow - 04-14-2005
Thawwing Light,Apr 13 2005, 03:46 PM Wrote:Hmmm. You're right, that does seem odd. I'm trying to remember exactly why this was so hard. I think I may have the levels on the run off, it was over a month ago...
I think the levels were more like 33 (me, warrior), 34 (1 shaman), 34 (mage), 35 (the other shaman). I know that the shamans hadn't gotten Windfury totem, and that the mage was the only one with real experience in the instance. The main difficulty was that were were shorthanded, and didn't have a real healer, as neither shaman was restoration specced.
I can't remember the details all that well, this run occured at the end of February. The more recent run of the cathedral with a 35 priest, 38 warrior, 38 shaman, and 37 rogue was a more appropriate run to term shorthanded. That one actually did turn out well.
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I'm going to try gnomeregan this weekend with a group of my friends. We should all be lvl 32 or 33 by then. I'm the warrior and we have a priest.
I'd rather go into an instance as soon as I have a chance of wiinning as opposed to waiting till the group is even slightly overleveled. I've already brought a shaman up to lvl 59, and the best memories of going through instances with him have been those where we made it by the skin of our teeth.
I usually refuse group members that are seriously over leveled and are bored and just want to help. Not only because they'd reduce the amount of XP I get, but also because it takes all the fun out of the run.
How I Play my Tank - Thawwing Light - 04-14-2005
undertow,Apr 14 2005, 01:54 PM Wrote:I'm going to try gnomeregan this weekend with a group of my friends. We should all be lvl 32 or 33 by then. I'm the warrior and we have a priest.
I'd rather go into an instance as soon as I have a chance of wiinning as opposed to waiting till the group is even slightly overleveled. I've already brought a shaman up to lvl 59, and the best memories of going through instances with him have been those where we made it by the skin of our teeth.
I usually refuse group members that are seriously over leveled and are bored and just want to help. Not only because they'd reduce the amount of XP I get, but also because it takes all the fun out of the run.
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No, I agree with you. That's why I'm organizing an RFC run for my Warlock at 15, and that's even a bit late: My warrior has been largely overleveled everywhere except for Wailing Caverns, Shadowfang Keep. and this latest run of Scarlet Monastery. I wish I could've done Gnomereagan or Blackfathom Deeps when I was the right level for it, but such is not the case. Good luck in Gnome...
Back to slightly on topic, instancing as a Warrior is neat!
How I Play my Tank - undertow - 04-15-2005
Thawwing Light,Apr 14 2005, 04:27 PM Wrote:Back to slightly on topic, instancing as a Warrior is neat!
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So far I'm really enjoying it, although I'll admit that having a nearly capped character that can farm gold and shop the AH for good gear helps a lot. I liked playing with my shaman, but eventually I got tired of the way he played in instances. Playing a warrior in an instance is a much more demanding but fun task.
I chose engineering for my warrior as well, I've found that starting pulls with dynamite is great starting multiple mob pulls. I love my goblin mortar too.
How I Play my Tank - kandrathe - 04-19-2005
Sinnu,Apr 13 2005, 07:31 PM Wrote:The pets aggro radius is microscopic. I tested this once with my tiger, KoKo. The Allliance Outriders in the South Barrens had just ridden by, and I had heard that the aggro for pets was smaller... so I popped on Eyes of Beast and was able to run literally at the heels of their mounts without drawing aggro. Normally, that bunch will aggro between 10 and 20 yards (very rough estimate). Something else to test;
I suspect, from that test and other places where I've used KoKo to scout, that the hunter's pet is a very strong tool to solo pull in very tight spots. I'd encourage any high level group with a better than average hunter to test this out... just be prepared to be wiped if the pet, even while on passive, decides to go exploring... gotta get that bug fixed... :blink:
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I tried this around lvl 40 against lvl 38 mobs, and then against level 20 mobs in instances. Aggro radius is smaller when not attacking, but, once combat begins the aggro radius seems to expand pulling in additional mobs. I did not notice a difference in the "in combat" radius by level.
So my experience has been, you can run passive within a few feet of lower level mobs, but once you stop and fight one, anyone within a 20-30yeard circle will aggro. The result is that as long as the pet is passive, and does a body pull of one mob it should work. But, don't anyone attack until you are safely away from any adds.
How I Play my Tank - Xanthix - 04-19-2005
kandrathe,Apr 19 2005, 10:53 AM Wrote:So my experience has been, you can run passive within a few feet of lower level mobs, but once you stop and fight one, anyone within a 20-30yeard circle will aggro.[right][snapback]74436[/snapback][/right]
This may actually be the mobs' social aggro you are seeing. When a mob has people on its hate list, it broadcasts that info to any other mobs withing a certain radius (This is where most adds come from). Perhaps this radius is larger than your PC's/pet's aggro radius at the level you were at.