+- The Lurker Lounge Forums (https://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Lurker Games (https://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/forum-6.html)
+--- Forum: World of Warcraft (https://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/forum-16.html)
+--- Thread: Is Blizz the root of all evil? (/thread-6536.html)
Pages:
1
2
Is Blizz the root of all evil? - Brista - 04-22-2005
It sounds like what the Romans called a testudo :)
As for why people whine about Blizzard it's just pure child-mode. "I lost a fight and since it can't be cos I suck, it's your fault Blizz, whine, whine, whine"
It's Spring, the trees are full of baby birds whining for worms which I doubt any of us ever pay any attention to. Why let them bother you when they post on forums?
Is Blizz the root of all evil? - Sword_of_Doom - 04-22-2005
Some thoughts on why Blizz "is the root of all evil".
1. False Promises--At the risk of oversimplification, i honestly have never bought a game where the game manual you get in the box is not usable for the game you play. There are so many differences between the game manual and the game itself its remarkable people are not using the word "fraud".
2. Missing Battlegrounds and Honor System (as described in their game manual)--Again, i can't remember a game that i have bought in the last 5 years where such major components of a game were left out. I would like somebody to try to give me examples from other major MMO's where this has occured. This is terrible mistake and its costing them big time. The funny thing is, the major content patches we are going to get in the future, will be content we were supposed to have on Nov. 23, 2004. Blizzard will try to pass it off as new content.
3. Realm instability--I have played other major MMO's (namely Everquest) and have never ever experienced realm instability like i have for WoW. The frequent Sunday crashes, followed by Monday, Tuesday, WEdnesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday brought a few of us here at the Lurker Lounge to our knees. It was only 3 weeks ago where our realm (Stormrage) was brought down for 24 hours that it seemed to clear up the frequent crash problems. We have experience realm stability until this most recent patch.
4. Maintenance days--Realistically, there hasn't been to many other companies out there that have struggled to the extent Blizzard has had with maintenance days. One thing that Blizzard could have done to alleviate the complaining was to actually give realistic maintenance time windows (for example 6 AM to 11 AM, rather than the 6 AM to 10 AM they normally gave). This would have solved a lot of the complaining that went on in the forums. The funny thing is 3 weeks ago they finally listened and extended their maintenance period by 2 hours. What cracked me up is Tyren or Eyonix trumpeted that on the official boards as if it was novel idea.
5. Patching--Disaster after disaster. This most recent patch was horrible. My latency is consistently in the red (1500+ latency) and is rendering the game unplayable. Not sure what they are going to do about this because i do not think it will stop. Bored 60's finally have something to do that is far easier than instance runs, the farming of characters. They will do this until Battlegrounds comes out which means months.
6. Poor Communication--Blizzard promised (from Mike Morhaime himself) that they would update their playerbase if any problems occured with the realms. That was and is a complete lie. They continue to struggle with providing accurate and timely updates.
7. Monthly fee--Charging the highest or close to the highest monthly fee in the MMO business createds expectations of excellence. I am more than willing to pay a high fee for a worthy product. Blizzard has shot themselves in the foot by charging a high fee and providing the above service.
What would make me happy?
1. Realm stability--I have a new computer (with a decent graphics card and ram) with a high speed cable connection so i should not be experiencing the problems i do. If they can maintain the realms the way they have been prior to the last patch i am happy as a clam.
2. No more false promises--I just want to be told the truth. For example, 3 weeks ago when they took down the Stormrage realm for 24 hours, they blatantly lied as why they did. First it was they had problems with the patch and then it turned into, we have taken down your realm to put in new servers. I wasted a day sitting at a computer with expectations that it would be up at some point in time during the day. All they had to say is, "We screwed up and we are fixing our screw up. REalms will be down for 12 hours as we put in new servers. Thanks for your patience."
3. Better communication--Inform the playerbase what is going on.
Miscellaneous
In conclusion, i hope people have noticed i have not complained about the game itself. Admittedly, this is the best game i have ever played, bar none. The game is so addictive, my wife hates me (not really but coming close. She thinks it is a "waste of time."). But the game is so immersive and beautiful i can play this game endlessly. The game itself is not broken; its the architecture and the management. Getting 1/3 right does not make for a successfull MMO. Fixing the architecture and management problems will take time but will go a long ways towards making this the most successful and best MMO of all time.
Is Blizz the root of all evil? - Bolty - 04-22-2005
Sword_of_Doom,Apr 22 2005, 10:15 AM Wrote:Some thoughts on why Blizz "is the root of all evil".
1. False Promises--At the risk of oversimplification, i honestly have never bought a game where the game manual you get in the box is not usable for the game you play. There are so many differences between the game manual and the game itself its remarkable people are not using the word "fraud".
2. Missing Battlegrounds and Honor System (as described in their game manual)--Again, i can't remember a game that i have bought in the last 5 years where such major components of a game were left out. I would like somebody to try to give me examples from other major MMO's where this has occured. This is terrible mistake and its costing them big time. The funny thing is, the major content patches we are going to get in the future, will be content we were supposed to have on Nov. 23, 2004. Blizzard will try to pass it off as new content.
3. Realm instability--I have played other major MMO's (namely Everquest) and have never ever experienced realm instability like i have for WoW. The frequent Sunday crashes, followed by Monday, Tuesday, WEdnesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday brought a few of us here at the Lurker Lounge to our knees. It was only 3 weeks ago where our realm (Stormrage) was brought down for 24 hours that it seemed to clear up the frequent crash problems. We have experience realm stability until this most recent patch.[right][snapback]74806[/snapback][/right]
Okay, you WERE warned, though, about all three of these issues. Not just from me, who kept shouting it from the rooftops in November about how the game probably wouldn't be truly ready for release until March/April, but from quite a few others as well.
That March/April estimation by me turned out to be pretty accurate, actually. Stormrage finally became a stable server in late March, and just now we finally got the REAL PvP ruleset that should have been IN PLACE BEFORE THE GAME WAS RELEASED. *cough*
Now all the level 60's on PvP servers can crow because they got there in "easy mode" and can lord it over all the others who have to struggle heavily against the player hunts, which encourage ganking.
I consider the latest patch we just had to be the true release version (since I never expected Battlegrounds at release; just a working, viable PvP system). All money you and I have paid to Blizzard before then has been money paid to help them beta test.
And if you enjoyed it anyhow, then there's not much you can complain about. :) You had fun. Isn't that what you were paying for? I know that's what I was paying for.
Fun is the final arbiter. :P
-Bolty
Is Blizz the root of all evil? - Sword_of_Doom - 04-22-2005
Bolty,Apr 22 2005, 03:36 PM Wrote:Okay, you WERE warned, though, about all three of these issues. Not just from me, who kept shouting it from the rooftops in November about how the game probably wouldn't be truly ready for release until March/April, but from quite a few others as well.
That March/April estimation by me turned out to be pretty accurate, actually. Stormrage finally became a stable server in late March, and just now we finally got the REAL PvP ruleset that should have been IN PLACE BEFORE THE GAME WAS RELEASED. *cough*
Now all the level 60's on PvP servers can crow because they got there in "easy mode" and can lord it over all the others who have to struggle heavily against the player hunts, which encourage ganking.
I consider the latest patch we just had to be the true release version (since I never expected Battlegrounds at release; just a working, viable PvP system). All money you and I have paid to Blizzard before then has been money paid to help them beta test.
And if you enjoyed it anyhow, then there's not much you can complain about. :) You had fun. Isn't that what you were paying for? I know that's what I was paying for.
Fun is the final arbiter. :P
-Bolty
[right][snapback]74808[/snapback][/right]
Actually i never played Beta ( i wish i did now) so i was unaware initially about no Honor System and Battlegrounds. But i would have to say is you are a "Prophet". I read with much interest your opinion on WoW and why you were not initially going to purchase the game and lot of your insight and speculation was true. I also see now why you were unhappy with them not implementing their full honor system (honor and dishonor). It is going to be a nightmare for those in their 50's on a PvP server and you are right, those that got to 60 got it on "easymode".
Is Blizz the root of all evil? - Darian - 04-22-2005
Sword_of_Doom,Apr 22 2005, 11:15 AM Wrote:3. Realm instability--I have played other major MMO's (namely Everquest) and have never ever experienced realm instability like i have for WoW. The frequent Sunday crashes, followed by Monday, Tuesday, WEdnesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday brought a few of us here at the Lurker Lounge to our knees.[right][snapback]74806[/snapback][/right]
I'm thinking you didn't play EQ when it launched. The stability on Stormrage prior to the last patch was better than the stability on, say, Prexus 6 full months after EQ launched.
Quote:4. Maintenance days--Realistically, there hasn't been to many other companies out there that have struggled to the extent Blizzard has had with maintenance days.
Maintenance days for EQ were horrible for the first six months or so.
Quote:5. Patching--Disaster after disaster. This most recent patch was horrible.
Same was true of EQ for a lot longer than six months.
I don't disagree with the existence of the problems we've been having, but for heavily-played MMOs, crappy technology during the first few months is almost part and parcel of the experience. As for promised content not being in place, that's not Blizzard's fault so much as it is Vivendi's.
Is Blizz the root of all evil? - Sword_of_Doom - 04-22-2005
Darian,Apr 22 2005, 05:09 PM Wrote:I'm thinking you didn't play EQ when it launched. The stability on Stormrage prior to the last patch was better than the stability on, say, Prexus 6 full months after EQ launched.
Maintenance days for EQ were horrible for the first six months or so.
Same was true of EQ for a lot longer than six months.
I don't disagree with the existence of the problems we've been having, but for heavily-played MMOs, crappy technology during the first few months is almost part and parcel of the experience. As for promised content not being in place, that's not Blizzard's fault so much as it is Vivendi's.
[right][snapback]74821[/snapback][/right]
This is the standard response that really concerns me. It means that we as consumers should and expect a crappy experience because that is the NORM. It is the standard in the industry. Honestly, is this what people really want? Isn't the point of Beta testing to iron out all these "crappy technology" problems. Isn't Beta there to polish a game so that its playable and enjoyable to the consumer? The current state of MMO's is exactly as described. But in any other field of service, Blizzard, SOE etc. would have been out of business a long time ago. Why is this acceptable? I don't have the answer for that other than as long as consumers are willing to shell out the bucks for "crappy" launches this will continue.
Is Blizz the root of all evil? - Ruvanal - 04-22-2005
Sword_of_Doom,Apr 22 2005, 01:49 PM Wrote:This is the standard response that really concerns me. It means that we as consumers should and expect a crappy experience because that is the NORM. It is the standard in the industry. Honestly, is this what people really want? Isn't the point of Beta testing to iron out all these "crappy technology" problems. Isn't Beta there to polish a game so that its playable and enjoyable to the consumer? The current state of MMO's is exactly as described. But in any other field of service, Blizzard, SOE etc. would have been out of business a long time ago. Why is this acceptable? I don't have the answer for that other than as long as consumers are willing to shell out the bucks for "crappy" launches this will continue.
[right][snapback]74824[/snapback][/right]
This is actually an almost standard part of any new products life cycle. As more generations of the a type of product eventually come around, each one should end up shortning the early heavy problem stage and move more quickly to a stable and better form of use that is more 'intutive' for the user/consumer to easily step into. Also there is the matter of proprietary knowledge that companies will typically try to retain for their own use. This in turn means that any other company entering the same field will have only a limited access to the 'secrets' of how the previous generation of product accomplished its goals in its final product. This often leaves a new entrant into a field working with the knowledge base of two generations prior or having to do some sort of reverse engineering that does not violate some patent/privacy law or having to aquire this more current information through aquistion of one the older companies and their existing knowledge base.
For the MMO's they are barely into a third generation of what they can do at this point. This is due in part to what is required time wise for one generation to just go through corrective actions and refinements of what they offer. This means that for many 'new' entrants into the field they only have full access to how the MMO looked prior to Everquest.
By comparison the computer that you have now has been through far more generations of this kind of 'evolution of technology'. It was from the patience and persaverance of many others prior to you that the technology you have can 'work realatively flawlessly' the first time you get it and start it up at home.
What you can expect is that to persue a comparitivly 'new' genre as this (MMO's) is that you will at times be running the risk of being one of the ones that has to work throught the products early infant stage of growing. Yes I know that there have been some sort of MMO'S for many years. But the type of genre that it is is one that each real generation of what it can do is years long (closer to the decade mark per genration from what I have observed from outside).
Is Blizz the root of all evil? - liffuie - 04-22-2005
counterargument, both city of hero's, and ac had MUCH stabler launches. In coh, while a much smaller release compared to wow, only the first day had major lag issues.
you could argue comparative sizes of the launches in question, but blizzard had their experience from bnet, developers from SOE, and designers from SOE. the Developers of coh had none of that vast background knowledge to draw upon, and less cash resources, yet were able to do a good launch.
ffxi us release launch was also smooth, with no noticible perforamce differences. argument there could be that they had a year of JP release going for them but, it could be considered a MAJOR patch release. Blizzard has yet to a patch day without problems. Compare this to squaresofts supporting two different platforms (pc and ps2) at the same time and doing massive population changes as launches in US and Europe added people to exsisting worlds.
Is Blizz the root of all evil? - Darian - 04-22-2005
Sword_of_Doom,Apr 22 2005, 01:49 PM Wrote:This is the standard response that really concerns me. It means that we as consumers should and expect a crappy experience because that is the NORM. It is the standard in the industry. Honestly, is this what people really want? Isn't the point of Beta testing to iron out all these "crappy technology" problems. Isn't Beta there to polish a game so that its playable and enjoyable to the consumer? The current state of MMO's is exactly as described. But in any other field of service, Blizzard, SOE etc. would have been out of business a long time ago. Why is this acceptable? I don't have the answer for that other than as long as consumers are willing to shell out the bucks for "crappy" launches this will continue.
[right][snapback]74824[/snapback][/right]
No, it doesn't mean that we as consumers should expect a crappy experience because it's the norm; it means that we as consumers of a relatively new technology should expect a crappy experience because the architectures and designs haven't been perfected yet and expecting them to suddenly be perfected isn't rational.
Further, we're dealing with leaps of technology within the genre which make solving the problems we see repeatedly even harder to combat. With EQ, you had a server architecture wherein there were dozens of zones which were basically separate entities; if there were 140 people in Western Commonlands, well, that had relatively little impact on the performance for a player who was hunting in Kithicor. The introduction of seamless zoning in and of itself sets back the effort to stabilize server architecture. To top it off, regardless of who Company G consults with, they still have to write their own code. Blizzard isn't using Sony's code, or Mythic's code, or EA's code, or NCSoft's code. What came before is nigh-irrelevant, because when it comes to the code, they started from scratch.
In any other field of service... well, you're not correct here. It's been about 8 years since the introduction of the graphic MMO. A full decade after the introduction of graphical dial-up online services, downtime on those services was higher than the normal downtime for a moden-day MMO. A full decade after AOL started letting people get together in chatrooms that only held 23 people, there were still noticeable lag spikes in chat. Hell, it's been over 25 years since the introduction of the home computer, and it took 20 years for a home-computer software company to release an operating system that wasn't arguably buggier than its predecessor!
A decade after the introduction of the automobile, it was still possible your car spent more time in the shop than on the road. A decade after the introduction of television, they were still black and white and had fuzzy pictures. People do still seem to die on the operating table, in situations where no malpractice has occurred, despite decades of modern surgical techniques. I'm pretty sure that's more important than a game not being all you expected it to be, isn't it?
Perfecting something takes time, and arguing that because a few other people made incremental improvements the next company should be able to perform flawlessly is an unrealistic argument.
Why is it acceptable? Here, we've got an MMO with the most daring attempt at seamless integration we've seen so far, and with the largest user base ever. It got rushed into production by the publisher, against the better judgement of the development team; that's regrettable. But that fact is also why I'm being patient with the developers and expecting them to get it fixed. It's not so much that it's "acceptable" as it is something I'm willing to put up with, especially when I consider the dollar-per-hour entertainment value. It costs me more to go see a movie that I pay for an entire month of this game, after all.
Is Blizz the root of all evil? - Chesspiece_face - 04-22-2005
Sword_of_Doom,Apr 22 2005, 10:15 AM Wrote:Some thoughts on why Blizz "is the root of all evil".
1. False Promises--At the risk of oversimplification, i honestly have never bought a game where the game manual you get in the box is not usable for the game you play. There are so many differences between the game manual and the game itself its remarkable people are not using the word "fraud".
[right][snapback]74806[/snapback][/right]
Other people have addressed some of your other points but i think i'll hit this one up in particular.
"Chapter 3: Getting Started
...
Note
World of Warcraft, like many massively-multiplayer online roleplaying games, is constantly evolving. In an effort to keep the game challenging and balanced, Blizzard will occasionally implement changes to the game through patches. In some cases, new content and game systems will also be added. At the time of the printing of this manual, the information contained herein was accurate and relevant. However, as the designers do adjust the game from time to time to give you the best gaming experience possible, some information in this manual might no longer be current.
To see last-minute amendments to the game, read the readme.txt file on the CD. This file records all changes made to World of Warcraft just prior to release that were too late to include in the manual."