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+--- Thread: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. (/thread-15126.html)
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Hammerskjold - 04-12-2013
(04-11-2013, 08:24 AM)Drasca Wrote: Good enough category. All the reading I've done on RAM, is that the differences in performance are so neglible it is barely detectable. I have the option to install more for a full 32 gigabytes later on.
Yep. Even if they do bring out DDR4 soon\this year, DDR3 prices are still pretty good at the moment and near future from what I can see.
Quote:Worst case scenario: I have an extremely powerful gaming / video rendering rig. Boo hoo.
Reading some info on those ASICS and FPGA machines you've mentioned, my own impression and I could very well be mistaken here. They're very specialized. They might be too specialized, like a motorized melon baller machine. And when they're obsolete, they're basically doorstops. And this is in addition to what you say about some of them being not readily available for purchase to the general public.
Like you say, at least with a general purpose PC, the worst case scenario you'll wind up with a hell of a PC that can be used for something else.
Quote:However... the prices of bitcoins have shown there's worldwide speculation and investment due to the cypress banking breakdown (which will only get worse over the course of the next month ) with europeans investing. The recent spike to 260 seems to have been due to asian investor speculation. However.... people's demand is what makes any currency worth anything and there's serious demand.
I readily admit here I'm still reading further on the subject, lost a good chunk of my afternoon on various articles on it, thanks.
It's a fascinating subject, particularly on just who is this Satoshi Nakamoto? I'm inclined to believe that it's more likely a group of people rather than just one, however some of the reasonings I've read that it -can't- be one person is hilariously ignorant IMO.
IE: It must be a pseudonym, since his\her english text is written like someone who speaks it fluently and idiomatically. Pseudonym is one thing. But do the people who believe this ever encounter a fluently bilingual person before? They do exist, I've met a few, and they're not riding unicorns. Or if this Satoshi was born in Japan, but raised or moved elsewhere at a young age.
Having said that, it's not impossible either that Satoshi was a group that was led by an individual or an overall principle\idea. Or something like this, simply due to how funny it would be if it was true.
Quote:Someone else wondered whether the name might be a sly portmanteau of four tech companies: SAmsung, TOSHIba, NAKAmichi, and MOTOrola.
http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/11/mf_bitcoin/all/
Overall I think it's a very fascinating ongoing experiment\idea. A little de-centralization and competition never hurt. And the ones that do cry foul, IMO are usually the biggest and worst offenders that needed a few corrective smacks themselves.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Taem - 04-13-2013
It seems that recent spike in the Bitcoin currency was what is commonly referred to as a "bubble". Interesting article on it today on NPR: audio link
What I find interesting is that even after the bubble, the currency stayed stable at it's original rate. Seems too risky to invest in atm, but worth a second glance to be sure.
And yes, we do live in a digital age, but I don't see it in any countries interest to reach a time when they loose control of the ability to manipulate their own currency for their own purposes. This purely digital currency will have to be embraced by the masses before it could ever become a one-world currency. What I find more interesting is the math behind how this technology was created, or more to the point, if it can be manipulated by those who know how it works? I guess I'm still wary is the correct term.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Drasca - 04-15-2013
Parts are here! Time to build!
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Drasca - 04-16-2013
Grr. Setbacks. Computer not running. Currently suspect PSU dud. Still investigating.
Mobo is lighting up, but no other components are spinning once power is turned on. Fans and HDD's not operating. I hate dud PSU's. This is the top end model too, which makes me hesitate.
I think I will have to buy a cheap psu just to op-test.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - LennyLen - 04-17-2013
Quote:I think I will have to buy a cheap psu just to op-test.You don't have any other computers in the house?
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Drasca - 04-17-2013
Sadly no. Fortunately I was able to get it tested with an atx power supply tester at a local repair shop for free. Tested bad. Rma process in progress. Going to order another psu that is on sale.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Drasca - 04-19-2013
I'm writing from my new computer. It isn't complete yet, but the new PSU works, and initial testing of PSU/Mobo/CPU is complete. There are already some nice new features I'm looking forward to.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Drasca - 04-20-2013
Ah, I am talking to myself. I've discovered my alternate PSU, while functional, only provides enough current for two GPU's. The computer is otherwise functional and benches really nicely. I'll deal with crossfire later, but am currently using it to mine bitcoins.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - LennyLen - 04-20-2013
What hash/s rate are you getting?
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Drasca - 04-20-2013
I'm still tweaking stable overclocks on the GPU's but using BTCguild's Guiminer anywhere from 640 Mh /s @ 1100 Mhz to 700 Mh / s @ 1200 Mhz per card.
At this time prices are slowly going up again, which makes me wish I bought at 50 bucks even more.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Hammerskjold - 04-21-2013
(04-20-2013, 04:02 AM)Drasca Wrote: Ah, I am talking to myself.
Well then let's talk about the other kind of hardware. The actual furniture!
I've been a fan and user of sit\stand workstation desk\setup from a long time. But this is the first time I took the plunge on the computer side.
![[Image: mf-standing-deskb_f.jpg]](http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/wiredscience/2012/09/mf-standing-deskb_f.jpg)
Illustration from:
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/10/mf-standing-desk/
Though I'd personally say a combo height is more practical and comfortable over a setup that is only sitting -OR- standing height only.
My setup sorta looks like this:
![[Image: 14631.jpg]](http://www.back2.co.uk/secure/images/products/14631.jpg)
My desk is basically a drafting table, but it's in the same basic shape as the above pic. A 50 dollar desk clamp monitor mount that's ok...but there's definitely better stuff out there if ya got the coin for it. But I love vesa attachment monitor setups especially the ones that frees up desk space.
Not using a desk lectern for the book like that guy, my comp case is on the side of the desk, and my chair is a 40 dollar walmart bar stool. My keyboard\mouse combo is a refurb Logitech wireless that I got for 5 dollars, and works like a champ. But the real work is done with a drawing tablet.
Also, I don't wear a suit while working on\at my self assembled desktop.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Drasca - 04-23-2013
Hammer, let me know when you get your machine!
As an update, I've received the RMA PSU today. It works and is tested working, but I'm left with more questions and have found out the Motherboard does not POST a third GPU. The slots themselves work fine individually, but only one GPU is functional on the 3rd and 5th slots with both populated.
I'm ordering another mobo, CPU and case so I can house my 4th GPU and 2nd PSU.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Hammerskjold - 04-23-2013
(04-23-2013, 12:49 AM)Drasca Wrote: Hammer, let me know when you get your machine!
I picked up the machine last week, tuesday iirc. Though the first few days were eaten up by setting the actual desk\work area, setting up a desk clamp monitor mount, the walmart bar stool, and other stuff like installing photoshop and my drawing tablet. The rest of the weekend was informal stress testing etc.
Working fine so far hardware wise, the store said they did have to tweak the RAM latency slightly, because during their burn in tests the original config was crashing after 5 hours or so for some reason.
I don't know remember the exact numbers, it may be slightly slower than the stock RAM settings, but in practical and actual use, there is absolutely no difference unless I can see a difference of nano seconds.
Overall I'm quite happy going with NCIX, and I can recommend it to anyone considering buying a system from them. Build wise they're very clean hardware and software wise (no junkware add-ons).
They're at least on par with high end Dell workstations, and IMO better because they're very flexible with customization. And competitive prices as well. Yes yes with big brand names the extra dollar you pay is for the extended warranty and support.
Speaking for myself only, I can live with the danger of just one year inclusive warranty for now. And if I do have a problem after that, well I live 15 minutes drive away from one of their walk in store\shop, so it works for my situation.
Obviously if you're a bigger enterprise class your needs might be different than mine. Insert "No one ever got fired for buying IBM" unofficial\official type policy here.
(Having said that, the rep I talked to said they've also worked with schools and larger business, so I can believe they could compete with bigger name brand builders, they just don't advertise on TV and newspapers like the big brands do.) Anyway back to the rig, I knew the case was a full tower, but jeebus it's a big case. I have no complaints and regrets, it's got great airflow and if I want to add stuff like storage and another vid card it'd be a breeze.
It wasn't built as a silent machine, but it's damn close to a near silent machine. 2x 120mm fans on top, 1x 120 at back, the machine is about 2-4 feet away from my head since it's on the desktop and my table is elevated for sit\stand height.
And all I can hear is a barely noticeable, but pleasant soft hum. If this was in a typical office it would not be heard at all. If I have headphones on and my mp3 player is set at vol 2-3, I can't hear the machine. When I'm concentrating on photoshop, I don't really hear the machine.
But if I was doing this again I can definitely see myself looking at a mid-tower instead. Hell there's a sexy small form factor Shuttle PC that is so damn tempting. In a parallel dimension, another me might have bought this instead:
http://www.ncix.ca/products/?sku=70524&vpn=SX79R5&manufacture=Shuttle&promoid=1360
I knew some folks that drive tractor trailers and semis for a living, and more than a few of them when they clock out, their personal car are compacts. Mini Coopers, and Smart car. One driver I knew loves compacts, and I remember him saying he'd buy an electric compact\micro in a split second. I imagine this is sort of the computer equivalent.
Though realistically I probably would take what I like from that Shuttle, and apply it to a general Micro ATX build instead. Slightly bigger than the Shuttle, but more flexible options. Basically an HTPC eloping with a workstation build.
But that won't be for a long time, this work rig will last for a while yet. Though like all victories, all high technologies is also fleeting.
Quote:As an update, I've received the RMA PSU today. It works and is tested working, but I'm left with more questions and have found out the Motherboard does not POST a third GPU. The slots themselves work fine individually, but only one GPU is functional on the 3rd and 5th slots with both populated.
I'm ordering another mobo, CPU and case so I can house my 4th GPU and 2nd PSU.
That's a tricky setup with 4 GPUs, at least to someone like me who usually runs 1 card only.
On paper the mobo I chose can support 4 cards. In a real situation, I read one review that it's physically very difficult. 2 is the practical limit, 3-4 is possible if you can find a card that can fit in all 4 slots.
I chose that mobo since the most I'd use is 2 cards anyway.
I don't know if you've looked at the newer version of it already, just looking at the pic there maybe a re-working of their slot that allows for easier 4 card setup. Though it's hard to say for sure just from the pics alone. Obviously best example if there was an actual test review of trying to put 4 cards in the board.
This is the one I have,
http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P9X79_WS/
This is the newer version,
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/P9X79-E-WS-Asus-Motherboard-X79,21782.html
Unless you meant you already chose another mobo, then never mind what I just wrote above.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - kandrathe - 04-23-2013
(04-23-2013, 03:24 PM)Hammerskjold Wrote: Though realistically I probably would take what I like from that Shuttle, and apply it to a general Micro ATX build instead. Slightly bigger than the Shuttle, but more flexible options. Basically an HTPC eloping with a workstation build.You'll most likely be happier with more space. I have a friend who builds PC's also, and he built a microATX cube. It was hard to maintain being so cramped, he basically needed to disassemble it to change anything. Other than being somewhat portable... there are few advantages over an ATX design. If I lived in a loft, and space were a premium, then my PC would be tiny and double as my space heater.
I'd also drive a mini cooper.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Drasca - 04-23-2013
(04-23-2013, 03:24 PM)Hammerskjold Wrote: Speaking for myself only, I can live with the danger of just one year inclusive warranty for now. And if I do have a problem after that, well I live 15 minutes drive away from one of their walk in store\shop, so it works for my situation.
Quality parts last years, especially if they don't get moved or heat stressed. Besides, there's tech depreciation and cost of replacement for the same level of power is so much less when getting past the two year mark.
(04-23-2013, 03:24 PM)Hammerskjold Wrote: Anyway back to the rig, I knew the case was a full tower, but jeebus it's a big case. I have no complaints and regrets, it's got great airflow and if I want to add stuff like storage and another vid card it'd be a breeze.
It wasn't built as a silent machine, but it's damn close to a near silent machine.
My own case is huge too. The next case I'm getting is a mid tower. The nanoxia deep silence 2. Should be interesting as a comparison.
I can't imagine the GPU being accessed, but even at full load? Either way, nice! Honestly I come from a backround of dedicated electronics room that is much louder, and my own clevo laptop is louder than my full tower's fans at full. The GPU's at full fan are a different story, but I'm surprised how quiet it all is.
(04-23-2013, 03:24 PM)Hammerskjold Wrote: Though realistically I probably would take what I like from that Shuttle, and apply it to a general Micro ATX build instead. Slightly bigger than the Shuttle, but more flexible options. Basically an HTPC eloping with a workstation build.
But that won't be for a long time, this work rig will last for a while yet. Though like all victories, all high technologies is also fleeting.
CPU wise, the overall direction is toward being feature rich and better efficiency, not absolute performance. Your CPU will be as good as it gets for a long time coming.
It may be fleeting, but it'll be high end for long enough that the cost of replacement / upgrade will be signifigantly reduced. If an upgrade is needed at all, that is.
In your stress testing, did you saturate your ram? I'd be very interested to know how much ram you're using.
(04-23-2013, 03:24 PM)Hammerskjold Wrote: That's a tricky setup with 4 GPUs, at least to someone like me who usually runs 1 card only.
This is the newer version,
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/P9X79-E-WS-Asus-Motherboard-X79,21782.html
Unless you meant you already chose another mobo, then never mind what I just wrote above.
In retrospect, I should've gone with an X79 chipset for going 4x GPUs, and checked out the GPU slot using profiles. I will likely do haswell-e in the future if I end up going for more. I still don't understand why the GPU's aren't being detected. I really only need one PCI-e lane to do the computations for hashing, and lane bandwidth shouldn't be a concern.
No real regrets. I'll have two desktops available for high end gaming when company is over. There are advantages to that too.
This was a spur of the moment decision based upon latent decision making and desires cross checking available wants vs needs vs cost for a long time. The details of what particular parts and system weren't the most efficient, but the overall direction has been a positive experience.
Oh, do you use a mousepad? I am really enjoying my steelseries mousepad. It is very smooth and reduces movement strain for me. I've also heard good things about trackballs and trackball mice hybrids. I tried out a mouse with a little trackball at the thumb few a few minutes, and I'd have to get used to it, but it intrigues me.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Hammerskjold - 04-23-2013
(04-23-2013, 07:47 PM)Drasca Wrote: My own case is huge too. The next case I'm getting is a mid tower. The nanoxia deep silence 2. Should be interesting as a comparison.
My first very own workstation I got was a full tower. My second is a mid-tall mini. This current one is a full tower (and then some, it can be mistaken for a small wine fridge
) My next one will most likely be a mid-mini type.That nanoxia case looks classy.
Quote:In your stress testing, did you saturate your ram? I'd be very interested to know how much ram you're using.
Sorry I might have misspoke here. The store did the burn in\stress test, and put the screenshot\camera snapshot proof. IIRC they did Furmark for the GPU, Memtest and Prime95 for RAM and CPU.
When I say informal stress test on my part, I should've been more clear that it was more like simulated tasks \ my worst case scenario workflow with photoshop and other things. Creating high res files, opening multiple PSD files, adding layers, using large sized brushes, opening multiple programs while PS is running etc.
Informal result from my informal test, I don't regret going with 64 gig. Having said that, 32 gig would be ok for -most- uses as well. Not going to say all, because there is no way I will say 'this will work for everyone because it worked for me'.
Going 64 gig however gives me a very nice breathing room, and decreases the chances of Photoshop needing to go to the scratch disk. Which is what usually kills PS speed.
Even 64 gig is not unlimited, in my simulated worst case scenario PS workload the need to do a purge is reduced severely, but I'm not going to say eliminated. I still have to get rid of layers that I no longer need. Aside from keeping it organized, CS6 can still be a hog in many respect.
Quote:CPU wise, the overall direction is toward being feature rich and better efficiency, not absolute performance. Your CPU will be as good as it gets for a long time coming.
It may be fleeting, but it'll be high end for long enough that the cost of replacement / upgrade will be signifigantly reduced. If an upgrade is needed at all, that is.
I hope so, at least that's my wallet speaking. Having said that. If I were to upgrade\add it would be another SSD to use as scratch disk\ temporary non critical storage. RAM is cheap right now, but SSD gives such a demonstrable, dramatic boost. Showing off to friends how a large amount of RAM is great in photoshop is kinda hard, since it's about as exciting as watching paint dry. In the sense that you don't really see anything dramatic, you just see someone continuously working without cursing 'wtf, out of memory error?!'.
But fast booting\loading on a SSD is easier for folks to see.
Quote:No real regrets. I'll have two desktops available for high end gaming when company is over. There are advantages to that too.
Did someone say...LAN party?! Though I'd probably insist on guest bringing their own keyboard\mouse. I can't believe I used to go some Net cafes for some 6 hours, late night Counterstrike matches and still lived to tell about it. In that I sometimes forgot to wash my hands before eating some Doritos during break, after touching and using the store's keyboard and mouse.
Quote:Oh, do you use a mousepad? I am really enjoying my steelseries mousepad. It is very smooth and reduces movement strain for me. I've also heard good things about trackballs and trackball mice hybrids. I tried out a mouse with a little trackball at the thumb few a few minutes, and I'd have to get used to it, but it intrigues me.
I don't use a mousepad at the moment since I use a Wacom tablet. I use the medium sized version of this one.
![[Image: 320px-Wacom_Bamboo_Capture_tablet_and_pen.jpg]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0a/Wacom_Bamboo_Capture_tablet_and_pen.jpg/320px-Wacom_Bamboo_Capture_tablet_and_pen.jpg)
Though I do use the mouse occasionally. While I certainly appreciate a nice keyboard\mouse, it's overkill for my use. I love mechanical keyboards, but I'd never buy it for this rig. For a personal gaming rig, that might be a different story. Those steel series looks very elegant and tasteful.
If I were to use a mousepad, it'd probably be glass table top with something opaque underneath. I heard laser mouse does better with glassy surface, but honestly it's more about ease of cleaning for me. And glass with graphics underneath looks classy to me. Maybe a picture of a space unicorn with laser canons or something.
kandrathe wrote:
Quote:You'll most likely be happier with more space. I have a friend who builds PC's also, and he built a microATX cube. It was hard to maintain being so cramped, he basically needed to disassemble it to change anything. Other than being somewhat portable... there are few advantages over an ATX design. If I lived in a loft, and space were a premium, then my PC would be tiny and double as my space heater.
I want to be clear here, I got no regrets going with the full tower on this current rig. It's got great airflow, great airflow = cooler temp = longer lifespan of parts = my wallet is happy.
All that being said. Small Form Factor PC, is t3h sexy to me. I call my current work rig the USS 'Nigella Lawson'. She's tall and big, cool and classy, bold and beautiful.
But if I were to get something for work and play however, I am definitely attracted to the mATX format aka the speed boat 'Pia Zadora' build. Small, potentially loud and hot, and charming out the wazoo. It'd be the computing equivalent of this lil beaut.
![[Image: resize.php?path=%2fstatic%2fdf7c8ac0-a6c...=270&h=210]](http://i.ushipcdn.com/resize.php?path=%2fstatic%2fdf7c8ac0-a6cc-460b-b.jpg&w=270&h=210)
Edited for pic size substitution.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Drasca - 04-24-2013
(04-23-2013, 11:43 PM)Hammerskjold Wrote: That nanoxia case looks classy.
It totally is! I just got it today. It is german over engineered to the nth degree and I love it. Nice filters and sound dampening material everywhere. Steel construction. Shiny where it should, mute where it shouldn't. I need to buy more fans for this thing.
In your stress testing, did you saturate your ram? I'd be very interested to know how much ram you're using.
[/quote]
Sorry I might have misspoke here. The store did the burn in\stress test, and put the screenshot\camera snapshot proof. IIRC they did Furmark for the GPU, Memtest and Prime95 for RAM and CPU.
When I say informal stress test on my part, I should've been more clear that it was more like simulated tasks \ my worst case scenario workflow with photoshop and other things. Creating high res files, opening multiple PSD files, adding layers, using large sized brushes, opening multiple programs while PS is running etc.
Informal result from my informal test, I don't regret going with 64 gig. Having said that, 32 gig would be ok for -most- uses as well. Not going to say all, because there is no way I will say 'this will work for everyone because it worked for me'.
(04-23-2013, 11:43 PM)Hammerskjold Wrote: Going 64 gig however gives me a very nice breathing room, and decreases the chances of Photoshop needing to go to the scratch disk. Which is what usually kills PS speed.
Even 64 gig is not unlimited, in my simulated worst case scenario PS workload the need to do a purge is reduced severely, but I'm not going to say eliminated. I still have to get rid of layers that I no longer need. Aside from keeping it organized, CS6 can still be a hog in many respect.
Definitely nice to know. For photoshoppers, it is always about demanding more ram. For Skyrim modders, it is demanding more VRAM. Other groups wouldn't understand, and think their own use and stock tests are enough.
I was not certain of your workload to begin with, but was aware of the possibility. Incidently, the US newegg is having a samsung 840 Pro 128 and 512 gigabyte sale.
How big of a scratch disk would you use? I know it can scale almost infinitely up depending on the demand's of the user.
because it worked for me'.
(04-23-2013, 11:43 PM)Hammerskjold Wrote: In the sense that you don't really see anything dramatic, you just see someone continuously working without cursing 'wtf, out of memory error?!'.
Well, you could show me a screenshot of your resource monitor and click on the memory tab. Look ma, we have standby space!
(04-23-2013, 11:43 PM)Hammerskjold Wrote: If I were to use a mousepad, it'd probably be glass table top with something opaque underneath. I heard laser mouse does better with glassy surface, but honestly it's more about ease of cleaning for me. And glass with graphics underneath looks classy to me. Maybe a picture of a space unicorn with laser canons or something.
Logitech Darkfield Mice's main sell is that they work on glass:
http://www.logitech.com/en-us/promotions/6138?pcid=6135
I've got two of the performance Mx mice and they are nice for a mouse anywhere mouse. They aren't as perfectly precise, but they are fun. Steelseries used to sell a ultrasmooth glass/clear mousepad, but it seems they aren't in production anymore sadly.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Drasca - 04-25-2013
Update: I completed build #2. Good & Bad news.
Good news. Awesome case in general. I am not a fan of how the side panels are attached, but that is minor compared to the next thing. Bad news. Discovered front power on logic board is damaged. There's probably a short somewhere. The damn thing doesn't turn on and stay on. It turns itself off within a moment. My RMA PSU returned and is working like a champ. The 7970's run and run hot, but are chugging away mining bitcoins. I so wish I bought at 50$. They're over 150$ right now. Go go bubble #2 of this year. Grabbed a i5 3570K for this 2nd build. I spread the 8 gig ram sticks out, since most games can't use more than 3.5 (let alone virtual address two gigs). Ordered another case that was on sale. Fractal Design XL R2. Wish I lived nearer LA, since the microcenter is selling 3770K's for over a hundred bucks cheaper with in store pickup (only). Going to return the Deep Silence 2 case. Shame, it is nice, just not functional.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Hammerskjold - 04-25-2013
(04-24-2013, 04:41 AM)Drasca Wrote: How big of a scratch disk would you use? I know it can scale almost infinitely up depending on the demand's of the user.
edited:
If I absolutely needed it soon like within the weeks or months, which thankfully I don't yet. Most likely it'd be a Samsung 120 SSD. (On further reading, I may not go to Samsung first if I'm buying another SSD as a standalone purchase. The one I have right now is covered by the store warranty since I bought their assembly option. But I've been reading some spotty Samsung Canada warranty stories. May or may not be true, but for me not worth the hassle. Seems that Intel has the lowest customer return#. And their price reflects that. But there are other brands that also has good reps, so I'm not married to Samsung.)
Basically it comes down to what can I get for 100 bucks or so, that is reliable and large enough and good value for the dollar.
edited section above.
This was going to be my first upgrade actually, since right now I put the scratch disk on my storage drive HDD, though that's not necessarily the best way. But since I haven't migrated most of my work there yet (and I'd back up the data anyway), I'm taking a small but still calculated risk. However I will eventually buy another SSD of some sort to use solely as a scratch disk\temp non critical stuff.
Unfortunately my 100 dollar for the SSD scratch disk was eaten because I need to replace a monitor for my now re-assigned older\back-up computer. I'm still using it for other work, and it's an old, off lease CRT whose VGA cable has seen better days.
So basically, time to save up. Ideally I'd want a 512gig to drop in price so I can buy that, make that the C: drive, switch out the 250 to serve as the scratch disk, and badabing badaboom. But I'll see what I can save up vs when I absolutely need to buy a drive for a dedicated scratch disk.
Quote:Well, you could show me a screenshot of your resource monitor and click on the memory tab. Look ma, we have standby space!
I can't do a screenshot at the moment, I can only do a text description.
I did another informal test today.
I had a bunch of reference pics up, via windows picture viewer, a regular DVD playing in the background, a bunch of reference pics opened in PS, as well as a couple of higher res files, with 12 layers on a few of them. Playing around with some brushes and cloning stamp.
The CPU meter only moved to 20% at highest, usually during some of brush stroke at larger brush sizes, but no noticeable hiccup. Whatever lag there is in the brush speed, I can say is not due to hardware, but software. PS is simply put, mostly built for photo work. It does a lot of other things well, but it's main focus is in the title, photo, shop.
I also run Autodesk Sketchbook Pro, the express/free version that came with my tablet, and even though it's not meant to compete vs photoshop. It runs circles around Adobe PS when it comes to pen input lag.
The scratch disk meter in PS from my previous test iirc climbed to around 1.6 gig or so. Today's test on the RAM resource monitor was around 6 gigs, though today I had less higher res files\pics, but more of them open.
But here's one kicker. I tried out the Smear\Finger Paint tool, and the CPU jumped to 40-41%, and it did the 'busy' spinning blue circle cursor for 30-40 seconds. Granted, I increased the brush size to a large diameter, and I zoomed out to 100% view. But it was basically watching jello walk up a flight of stair. RAM basically hovered\stayed at 6 gig or so.
I thought I had something mis-configured somewhere, I even checked on my older machine. I don't use Smear much, and though I've used PS since Windows 3.11 days, I don't remember if it was this slow back then.
Went online to check, and nope. Jello speed was apparently improved from snail on concussion speed.
http://forums.adobe.com/message/5019201
Check out the OP's drool worthy work rig specs, if even that super saiyan beast grade machine has troubles, IMO it's not for lack of muscle.
It looks to my non-techie, non programmer opinion only. PS is horridly inefficient at some places. It's great to good at a lot of things. But at some things, ya really wonder. It's optimized to be leaner and faster ever since CS5, but IMO certain Feature Creep robs some of that gain.
EG: I checked out some of it's new brush tips. IMO, gimmicky. Specifically the erodible brush tips. You can set the softness\hardness, and you have button that says 'Sharpen Tip' when it becomes to broad to simulate a dull point. So...you can simulate the analog equivalent of needing to sharpen a pencil in the digital workflow? Yeah...no thanks. Thankfully, it's easily turned off.
There's things that are absolutely worth emulating from the analog workflow to the digital. The speed of a real pen\pencil on paper sketching is worth emulating. Emulating the need to 'sharpen' a virtual pencil? It's idiotic. Thank gods it's easily turned off, because IMO that's it's best 'feature'.
Because seriously, what the hell is next, a monthly subscription to Adobe Cloud so you can 'refill' your virtual 'paint' can? Replacing virtual brushes because their virtual bristles only lasts a month?
In any case, I use Autodesk Sketchbook Pro if I absolutely need to use a Smear tool. Sketchbook Pro is not meant to compete vs PS, but it does what it does extremely well. Pen input speed is 99% as fast as the real thing, and it's Smear tool compared to PS version can run almost in real time. (I've ran the comparison on my older comp as well, and it's the same result.)
PS is awesomely great to good at many things. It's an industry standard tool, for a good reason. But IMO it really needs some competition at this point, because some of the things it's bringing\doing, to me reeks of complacency.
(edited addition: Found out the problem. Smear tool starts to slow at double res 1080p, so 3840 x 2160 res. At 1080 it's near real time, as long as brush size is not overly large. I remembered it being faster because I wasn't working at that res level some versions back. So it's not PS's fault. General pen input lag can still be improved though.
)Quote:Steelseries used to sell a ultrasmooth glass/clear mousepad, but it seems they aren't in production anymore sadly.
I was reading up on those. And a few people say they're just out of stock, though that's not definitive of course.
Though if I were to get a substitute, I'd probably just get a sheet of plexiglass at home depot\lowes or something.
Another alternative, granite tiles or plastic mixed granite cutting boards.
http://www.amazon.com/Dexas-17-Inch-Pastry-Midnight-Granite/dp/B000063SRL
Quote:The 7970's run and run hot, but are chugging away mining bitcoins. I so wish I bought at 50$. They're over 150$ right now. Go go bubble #2 of this year.
How's the other crypto-currencies, ie Litecoins. Are they growing at the same rate as Bitcoins at this point?
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Drasca - 04-30-2013
(04-25-2013, 04:29 AM)Hammerskjold Wrote: Basically it comes down to what can I get for 100 bucks or so, that is reliable and large enough and good value for the dollar.
So basically, time to save up. Ideally I'd want a 512gig to drop in price so I can buy that, make that the C: drive, switch out the 250 to serve as the scratch disk, and badabing badaboom. But I'll see what I can save up vs when I absolutely need to buy a drive for a dedicated scratch disk.
Check out this drive retailers say is available in a month:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6884/crucial-micron-m500-review-960gb-480gb-240gb-120gb
Prices are coming down as factory processes are developed. The Crucial/Micron M500 is a new 128 bit process and the 960 Gigabyte is priced around 600 dollars-- which is a steal capacity / price wise, especially compared to the other terrabyte solutions! Note it is a single drive, not a raid solution. The performance is not as good as the 840 Pro's, but it is still in the same league.
Really, staying in line with Moore's law, if you save your money until when you need it, you'll be good to go. SSD prices come down in fairly regular intervals and I'm quite happy to see an order of magnitude better capacity and increased performance to boot in the past five years of SSD development.
(04-25-2013, 04:29 AM)Hammerskjold Wrote: http://forums.adobe.com/message/5019201
Check out the OP's drool worthy work rig specs, if even that super saiyan beast grade machine has troubles, IMO it's not for lack of muscle.
Ahaha I am not surprised the code is inefficient and unable to flex his hardware muscle.
Thanks for the inside info on PS and other Graphics Software work.
(04-25-2013, 04:29 AM)Hammerskjold Wrote: How's the other crypto-currencies, ie Litecoins. Are they growing at the same rate as Bitcoins at this point?
Litecoins will not likely have ASICs anytime soon. For bitcoins, from what I'm reading, a lot of people are ordering their own independent DIY kits via group order batches of 10k Avalon chips from TSMC foundry. A few months, they're expected to be on the network. Demand exceeds the Avalon company's desire and ability to produce, and Butterflylabs has not shown any shipped ASIC products. Other companies are also forming and doing their own ASICs.
Litecoins are comparable right now in profit per day, but the prices are fluctuating greatly, andusually LTC fluctuate even more than BTC. I just did a mining comparison on my own rigs and there isn't a huge profit of LTC over BTC right now. There will change as ASICs dominate, but the current estimates are that I'd be making about as much money mining BTC as LTC. When BTC is unprofitable due to network difficulty, I will switch over.
So basically, risky either way. Take your pick. I'm happy with my two rigs though. I've already played Borderlands 2 with an invited friend over and played it crispy clear. I just realized I technically could do all four players in Borderlands 2 in my apartment. Hmmm... 2 Laptops able to play it smoothly, and two Desktops.