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Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Hammerskjold - 03-22-2013
Hello guys and gals, I know there are some awesome techies lurking around here. If any of y'alls can give me a secondary glance in case there's any glaring incompatibility or problems, I'd really appreciate it.
I am planning to buy a custom workstation PC, it's going to be a photoshop running machine. I'm having them assemble it because for approx 50$, they can do a hell of a lot better job than I can.
From the reviews I've read they do a clean and neat job hardware wise (cable management etc), and software wise they don't install crapware\bloatware. Their build quality seems to be on par with high end name brand PC workstation I've seen.
This will be an extremely limited innernets\wifi connected machine. Think Battlestar Galactica, staffed by a N. Korean IT department. Facebooking and Twittering? AW HELL NAW!!111
Here is the near finalized spec list. Prices are in Canadian dollars.
-Processors (CPUs): Intel Core i7 3820 Quad Core 10MB 3.6GHZ Hyperthreading LGA2011 Processor No HSF
$319.79
(Pretty much finalized on this one. i7 quad core is the sweet spot at this time. 6-8core is face first hard smackage in the diminishing return wall for my use. Reviews I read on this CPU says it's a good but no frills i7 quad core. Which is exactly what I'm looking for.)
-CPU Heatsinks: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo Direct Touch 4 Heatpipe Heatsink AM2 AM3 LGA1366/1155/1156/2011 120mm 1 $34.98
(I'm going with air cooler instead of a liquid cooling system. This particular model seems to have good reviews, though I'm open to other suggestions if anyone out there have some experience on a reliable air cooler for workstation\heavy 24/7 duty rig.)
-Motherboards: ASUS P9X79 WS ATX LGA2011 X79 DDR3 6PCI-E16 SATA3 USB3.0 SLI CrossFireX Audio Motherboard 1 $366.81
-DDR3 Desktop Memory: G.SKILL RipjawsX F3-1866C10Q-32GXL 32GB 4X8GB DDR3-1866 CL10 240PIN 1.5V Quad Channel Memory Kit
2 $531.96
(Total RAM=64 gig. Photoshop CS6 loves RAM like a starving man in a pie eating contest. 64 gig is the current sweet spot for my use, though I am taking a calculated risk of using two 32 kit =64, not a factory tested 64 gig kit. But since an 'official' factory tested 64 gig kit is also close to a thousand bucks plus, I am going with the calculated risk option.
Open to suggestions based on experience on the brand of RAM though. The G. Skill Ripjaws seems to have good reviews on compatibility and stability, originally I chose the G.Skill Sniper but the price went up on those.)
-Computer Cases: Antec P280 XL-ATX Tower Case Black 3X5.25 2X2.5 6X3.5IN 2X120MM Top 1X120MM Rear Front USB3.0 No PSU
$116.30
-Video Cards: ASUS GeForce GTX 650 Direct Cu 1058MHZ 1GB 5.0GHZ GDDR5 2xDVI HDMI D-Sub HDCP PCI-E DX11 Video Card
$134.99
(Workstation but no Quadro card?! LOLWUT? Since this will be a 95% Photoshop machine, no need for a Quadro\Firepro IMO.)
-Power Supplies: Seasonic Platinum 660W ATX 12V 24PIN Active PFC 80PLUS Platinum Fully Modular DC to DC Power Supply
$149.99
-Operating Systems: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional Edition 64Bit DVD SP1 OEM
$129.98
-Hard Drives: Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB 64MB Cache 7200RPM 3.5in SATA Internal Hard Drive OEM
$194.30
-Solid State Drives:
SSD Intel 520 Series 120GB 2.5IN SSD MLC 25nm SATA3 Solid State Disk Drive Retail W/ Mounting Bracket
$190.80
-CD & DVD Drives ASUS DRW-24B1ST 24X SATA DVD Writer OEM Black 1 $20.93
-Assembly Options PC Assembly And Testing with 1 Year Limited warranty $44.93
-Fans & Cooling Antec TrueQuiet 120MM Case Fan W/ Silicone Mount & Adjustable Switch 8.9-19.9DBA 2 $24.35
Total damage approx $2261.00
Bits and bobs:
-Monitor: Already have.
-Keyboards\mouse: If compatible, my 10 years old wired Microsoft KB&M OEM combo. If not, I will splurge on a wired MS or Logitech 15-20$ brown box combo. The real work input for this machine is a drawing tablet anyway. A good, wired, and cheap KB is for the shortcut key combos. Gaming keyboard, nice mechanicals, are dollars needlessly wasted for what this machine is purposed for.
-Speakers: same reasoning as above. Onboard sound and tested with speakers I already have to see that everything is functioning ok. But I'm not Danny Elfman here.
This machine will have to serve for at least 5 years, (screw that trend of 3 years lifecycle, it's getting ridiculous) if not longer. Hence stuffing it to the gills with maxed out RAM. With the way I use my machines, I probably will not do any upgrading. Any 'upgrading' will be deferred for as long as possible until it's just cheaper to buy a new rig, and the current one re-purposed\recycled.
Anything I overlooked or missed? The purchase of this Battlestar will hopefully be done in 2 weeks time or less, set up and battle ready by the end of this month. Thanks guys and gals.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Taem - 03-23-2013
That is an insane amount of ram! But that video card, do you think it will be powerful enough? What about the 7870 crossfire?
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Hammerskjold - 03-23-2013
(03-23-2013, 03:07 AM)Taem Wrote: That is an insane amount of ram!
Unfortunately, not for this purpose. 2D high res graphics , video, and music editing rigs can be ginormous RAM devourers. They're basically Galactus.
Eg: It's not uncommon for artists to work at 'double resolution', then scale it down once it's approved\finished. So for a 1080p hi-def image, it's double res during the actual creation.
Personally I think an image can be good (subjectively speaking) even at 720p, or even -gasp- standard def, but what I think doesn't matter in the context of where the industry is and going. Even smartphones are going higher def.
I'm not doing any heavy video or any music editing, but reading up on various photographer\digital graphic artist forum about their rigs. Most of the point's I've read seems to list RAM is what pleases the current Photoshop God the most.
Want to know what -is- insane, 64 gig is not even considered 'super large' in this area.
At this point in time, 8 gig is considered bare minimum (for this type of usage), 16 better but save up for 32. 64 is the current sweet spot before going off the deep end into building expensive 'Big Iron' rigs that for me at least, is not worth the cost due to severe diminishing return. (If someone else is footing the bill, well then all bets are off. I'd be doing it up like this guy.)
![[Image: photo-2228.jpg]](http://chicagoduffer.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/photo-2228.jpg)
Quote:but that video card, do you think it will be powerful enough?
Thankfully, from what I've read so far, even a mid range gaming card is good enough.
http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Adobe-Photoshop-CS6-GPU-Acceleration-161/
Quote:What about the 7870 crossfire?
Reading up on the crossfire stuff, so far my understanding of it is dual GPU setup is either not supported\not a big enough boost to warrant it. At least not for my usage with this machine.
It is a good point you bring up, since if I were to upgrade anything on this rig it would be dual monitor setup. The card that I have on the spec list seems to be 'passable-ok' for non gaming dual display, and honestly I'm still fine with single monitor right now.
Though if the current trend of laptop price to power ratio keeps improving, I maybe seriously tempted to just get a laptop as the second display\satellite system. Just not right now of course.
Hell I still gotta pay for software. That's where they -really- get ya.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Taem - 03-23-2013
(03-23-2013, 05:28 AM)Hammerskjold Wrote: Hell I still gotta pay for software. That's where they -really- get ya.
So by this, I take it your typical pirated copy of PS-6 will not do?
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Hammerskjold - 03-23-2013
(03-23-2013, 06:28 AM)Taem Wrote:(03-23-2013, 05:28 AM)Hammerskjold Wrote: Hell I still gotta pay for software. That's where they -really- get ya.
So by this, I take it your typical pirated copy of PS-6 will not do?
Good heavens! PS-6 are pirated by people?!
/monocle shatter
Cads and bounders I say!
In all seriousness, while I like to say in reality, Adobe probably doesn't really care if people pirate Photoshop, as long as you're not making any money out of it. And that they only really care when you start using it in a commercial way.
Unfortunately, we also live in a kind of world where this can happen.
http://www.dailytech.com/AntiPiracy+Mafia+in+Finland+Raid+House+Confiscate+Winnie+the+Pooh+Laptop/article29253.htm
I use to give Adobe somewhat more leeways in the past. Nowadays and increasingly, not so much. They and other companies are moving more and more into 'cloud subscription' model base, and even though you can still buy a physical backup version. I reaaaaly dislike this trend, how most companies do it (badly), and I find it disturbing for the future.
http://prodesigntools.com/adobe-ends-cs6-boxed-copies.html
Looks like this machine will have the last version of PS that I will buy from a brick and mortar re-seller.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Lissa - 03-24-2013
If you're doing 95% photoshopping, you don't need 64 G of RAM, 32 G will be more than sufficient for quite some time to come, get 8 sticks of 4G RAM and save yourself a bunch of money (likewise, get 1600 MHz, anything higher is mostly a waste as there's little difference in noticiable change between 1600 MHz and 2400 MHz RAM).
Likewise, you're building a workstation, get a workstation processor and MB, like the Xeon E-5 2603 or 2609 (you really don't need a 3.4GHz processor if your just doing photoshopping, 2.4GHz or even 1.8GHz will be sufficient for years to come). As for MB, get something like Asus Z9PA-U8 or Supermicro X9SRA which are made for what you're looking to do (the MB, and less extent CPU, are made for gaming, not really workstation work).
For a storage drive, you don't need 7.2k RPM, 5.4k RPM will be more than sufficient as well and you could get more overall storage for the same price. Also, there are just as good, if not better, SSDs available than the one you've choose from Intel at a much lower price. Some of the very reliable SSDs out there are from Crucial and Samsung (the 830 or the 840 Pro, 840 isn't as reliable, but the Pro versions are very much so).
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Hammerskjold - 03-25-2013
(03-24-2013, 06:31 PM)Lissa Wrote: If you're doing 95% photoshopping, you don't need 64 G of RAM, 32 G will be more than sufficient for quite some time to come, get 8 sticks of 4G RAM and save yourself a bunch of money (likewise, get 1600 MHz, anything higher is mostly a waste as there's little difference in noticiable change between 1600 MHz and 2400 MHz RAM).
First off, thank you for your input, very much appreciated. I'm ok with some of the computech literacy, but some of the nittier grittier stuff just gives me a headache.
Pricing it out so far, going 32 gig of RAM will save me approx. $230.00 or so. Nothing to sneeze at, but if going 64 gig will not decrease reliability on the mobo+cpu setup, I don't mind paying the extra 2 hundy or so bucks. If it does affect reliability severely, then I don't mind going 32 -AND- saving a couple of hundred bucks.
(Going 8 x4gig module =32 seems to work out the same or more expensive vs a 4 x8gig module, at least at this store it seems.)
Quote:Likewise, you're building a workstation, get a workstation processor and MB, like the Xeon E-5 2603 or 2609 (you really don't need a 3.4GHz processor if your just doing photoshopping, 2.4GHz or even 1.8GHz will be sufficient for years to come). As for MB, get something like Asus Z9PA-U8 or Supermicro X9SRA which are made for what you're looking to do (the MB, and less extent CPU, are made for gaming, not really workstation work).
Found the Xeon CPU, and the Asus and Supermicro mobo. However the store website I'll likely buy this from has a potential compatibility problem flag.
http://pc.ncix.com/ncixpc/ncixpc.cfm?uuid=696D4B37-E707-45DB-97F27886215D7348-4965151#PCTop
Granted the compatibility check button\option is in beta, and it might be just be a hiccup, but it's saying that the cooler, CPU, and RAM and vid card may not be compatible with the mobo.
Wtf?
I thought it was all ok since they're all LGA2011 compatible, what the hell am I missing here? I hope it's not because I -absolutely- require dual Xeon and ECC RAM to work? Even the CPU cooler says it's for Xeon etc, but it still says not compatible?Quote:For a storage drive, you don't need 7.2k RPM, 5.4k RPM will be more than sufficient as well and you could get more overall storage for the same price.
Yep, for storage I'm much more concerned about reliability\stability over speed. I'm fine with 5.4k rpm as long as they're reliable. Switched the spec list from WD Caviar Black 2TB, to WD Red 3TB. Appreciate your opinion on this or any other brand\line you've seen to be a reliable storage HDD.
Quote:Also, there are just as good, if not better, SSDs available than the one you've choose from Intel at a much lower price. Some of the very reliable SSDs out there are from Crucial and Samsung (the 830 or the 840 Pro, 840 isn't as reliable, but the Pro versions are very much so).
The store does have the Samsung 840 pro, and it's 20$ cheaper. Nice.
Thanks again by the way, hopefully that compatibility check flag is just a hiccup, because with your suggestion the revised spec list just shaved off approx. $100 off the price.
(I haven't even gotten to the price matching stage yet!)
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Drasca - 03-25-2013
Just an FYI, if Photoshop is the primary usage, the latest Photoshops have mercury engine, which heavily accelerate Photoshop use based on your GPU.
From adobe's website itself: http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/mercury-graphics-engine.html
Feature list from their forums:
GPU features added in Photoshop CS6
Adaptive Wide Angle Filter (compatible video card required)
Liquify (accelerated by compatible video card with 512MB VRAM, GPU mode unavailable on Windows XP)
Oil Paint (compatible video card required)
Warp and Puppet Warp (accelerated by compatible video card, GPU mode unavailable on Windows XP)
Field Blur, Iris Blur, and Tilt/Shift (accelerated by compatible video
card supporting OpenCL, GPU mode unavailable on Windows XP)
Lighting Effects Gallery (compatible video card required with 512MB
VRAM, unavailable on Windows XP)
New 3D enhancements (3D features in Photoshop require a compatible video card with 512MB VRAM, unavailable on Windows XP):
Draggable Shadows
Ground plane reflections
Roughness
On-canvas UI controls
Ground plane
Liqht widgets on edge of canvas
IBL (image based light) controller
* Note that all 3D features are unavailable on Windows XP in Photoshop CS6
GPU features added in previous versions of Photoshop
Scrubby Zoom. See Zoom continuously
Heads Up Display (HUD) color picker. See Choose a color while painting
Color sampling ring. Choose colors with the Eyedropper tool
Brush dynamic resize and hardness control. See Resize or change hardness of cursors by dragging
Bristle Brush tip previews. Bristle tip shape options
Rule of thirds crop grid overlay. Crop images
Zoom enhancements. Smooth display at all zoom levels and temporary zoom. See Zoom continuouslyTemporarily zoom an image
Animated transitions for one-stop zoom.
Flick-panning.
Rotate the canvas. Use the Rotate View tool
View nonsquare pixel images. Adjust pixel aspect ratio
Pixel grid. Hide the pixel grid
Adobe Color Engine (ACE).
Draw Brush tip cursors. Resize or change hardness of cursors by dragging
http://forums.adobe.com/message/4289204
(more at their forum)
Your RAM/Speed usage is heavily dependent upon your workload, which we don't know about. More ram won't affect your stability, but as a reminder regular internal dusting is recommended.
Personally, I would recommend the WD Caviar Red. Better capacity for price and built for 24/7 use. You can get a 3 TB for less than you'd pay for the 2 TB. Comparable speeds. Your primary access speed will be from the SSD anyway. I do recommend a higher capacity SSD. You can typically get a Samsung 840 Pro for a better price, but everything varies. I have a Intel 520 240 Gb myself, and am plenty satisfied, but today's prices typically favor Samsung.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Hammerskjold - 03-25-2013
(03-25-2013, 08:19 PM)Drasca Wrote: Just an FYI, if Photoshop is the primary usage, the latest Photoshops have mercury engine, which heavily accelerate Photoshop use based on your GPU.
From adobe's website itself: http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/mercury-graphics-engine.html
Yeah, I'm somewhat on the fence from what I've read from the 'trenches'. I know that the latest versions of PS is benefiting more from GPU, and about time I say. But the stickler seems to be CUDA vs OpenCL. Adobe seems to be moving more towards OpenCL, but CUDA is still supported.
Though really, I don't want to fall into paralysis by analysis, so I usually look at what other graphic artist rigs are like, how well (or not) they run, and crib that. So right now I'm probably sticking to that Geforce 650 type\range. Unless there's something better for the bang to buck ratio, but in general I haven't had\seen any complaints with most mid range gaming vid card.
Quote:Your RAM/Speed usage is heavily dependent upon your workload, which we don't know about. More ram won't affect your stability, but as a reminder regular internal dusting is recommended.
While the bulk of the work will be 2D work, there is a strong possibility of 3D stuff on the side as well.
But again, I'm going with the chatter from the trenches. The blood thirsty and all consuming Adobe PS God, likes the following offerings ranked from most pleased, very pleased, to a passable 'meh...it's ok...I guess.'
1) RAM. Tasty, and no such thing as too much. PS appetite for RAM is fully unleashed in CS6 afaik. I currently run an older version that is maxed at 4 gigs, and I have 4 gigs on my machine. It starts showing it's age when I get to double high res stuff. If I want to make this machine last a while, I'm planning to put most of the bucks in RAM.
One of the big box stores is selling a high end gaming rig, with 32 gigs of RAM, at a higher price than what this work rig specs out at 64 gigs. So I'm drinking the kool-aid on this one, and most likely stuff this ship with maxed out phaser banks. (As much as my current budget allows me to at least.)
2) SSD temple where the PS God can reside.
3) Lower priority regarding CPUs: #of Cores and speed. No significant advantage beyond 4 cores, I don't necessarily want the slowest speed but most current quad core CPUs seems to be good enough for my usage.
The only monkeywrench that hit me at the moment is this Xeon vs i7 thing. I do know artists that use an i7 based workstation, and I have used PS and 3d programs on machines which was nothing more than a modified gaming rig.
While I want a workstation rig that is reliable, I also have to juggle that with some relative performance speed, and definitely cost.
I'm reading different stories whether or not a Xeon based setup can use non ECC RAM, (It's optional! It's required!) because if it can't then I might have to roll the dice and go with an i7 based rig instead.
I reallllly like what I'm reading so far about user reports with Xeon based workstations, but if the cost \ compatibility\availability of using ECC RAM becomes a problem. Then chances are I'll just roll with an i7.
Quote:Personally, I would recommend the WD Caviar Red. Better capacity for price and built for 24/7 use. You can get a 3 TB for less than you'd pay for the 2 TB. Comparable speeds.
Yeah, I changed it to WB Red on the previous posts. But good to hear another recommendation on it. Unless that's another different thing, WD Red = WD Caviar Red yes?
Quote:Your primary access speed will be from the SSD anyway. I do recommend a higher capacity SSD. You can typically get a Samsung 840 Pro for a better price, but everything varies. I have a Intel 520 240 Gb myself, and am plenty satisfied, but today's prices typically favor Samsung.
It's the Canadian prices vs US prices, I'm just glad I'm not using euro.
If everything works out in that I -can- use regular non ECC RAM on a Xeon based setup, and everything else is compatible, then I might be able to put the saved bucks to a higher cap SSD.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Drasca - 03-26-2013
Personally, I'd go for an i7 when performance/price favors it. Intel chips are digustlingly resilient at stock. ECC is not required for personal tasks (business/military/science is a potentially different story).
I'm linking newegg canada for reference, since they're generally comparable-- other companies can have better deals on specifics products though.
Yes, WB Red = Caviar Red.
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236344 is the 3TB version, which is costs 5 more than your black.
As for your CPU price, the newegg canada's price seems better than your listed one, considering it also currently has a 20$ promo on top of the 299 listed price:
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115229&Tpk=3820&IsVirtualParent=1
But you do realize, that isn't a Xeon processor you've got listed. That's a Sandy Bridge-E. Xeons aren't inherently better, especially for your purpose. I would avoid Xeon, as it is not designed for your purpose.
If you absolutely insist on 64Gb of ram, go with Sandy-E, but I'd go with the 3770 Ivy Bridge Processor and 32 Gb of ram, and keep the money for a larger SSD:
Keep in mind SSD performance is affected by capacity. The sweet spot is generally around 240-256 Gb, and keeping at least 10% spare area as free (more is better however).
I also have no clue who you're going to for quoting SSD prices. Newegg canada lists the same intel 520 120gb as 150. However the Samsung 840 Pro is currently king of the SSD Hill:
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147193
Even on newegg canada, Samsung's Pro version is favored over the Intel 520. Don't get me wrong, I love Intel but performance/price favors Samsung and reliability is tier one on both. Saving money though, there are a number of other SSD's. Intel's own 3xx series has comparable performance to their 520 series, and in retrospect I could've saved money with that instead since it is a nearly identical product.
Again, I don't know how big your images are nor how many you work with at once. I don't use PS enough to gauge. I am currently running 8 and 12 gigabytes of ram on my laptops respectively. The SSD's makes PS load fast as heck--just shy of instant. I don't come anywhere close to 64 gigabytes of ram usage for photoshop. I can only imagine doing multiple high resolution images at once-- entering the scope of professional requirements, which means the budget for would be a lot more justified since the equipment makes you money.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Hammerskjold - 03-26-2013
(03-26-2013, 01:31 AM)Drasca Wrote: ECC is not required for personal tasks (business/military/science is a potentially different story).
Yeah the monkeywrench was the compatibility issue, it is causing me a bit of a headache sorting out the whole ECC is required vs optional for a Xeon. Just to be clear, if I am going with a Xeon setup I'd much rather find a Xeon setup that can run non ECC RAM. VS -needing- ECC for it to work, at all.
Quote:As for your CPU price, the newegg canada's price seems better than your listed one, considering it also currently has a 20$ promo on top of the 299 listed price:
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115229&Tpk=3820&IsVirtualParent=1
But you do realize, that isn't a Xeon processor you've got listed. That's a Sandy Bridge-E. Xeons aren't inherently better, especially for your purpose. I would avoid Xeon, as it is not designed for your purpose.
Hmmm? I did have the NCIX link list the 2 selections IIRC, one was the i7, and the other the Xeon that Lissa mentioned,
Xeon e5 2609, and the i7 3820 below it.
http://pc.ncix.com/ncixpc/ncixpc.cfm?uuid=696D4B37-E707-45DB-97F27886215D7348-4965151#PCTop
hopefully the link shows this correctly though.
Quote:I also have no clue who you're going to for quoting SSD prices. Newegg canada lists the same intel 520 120gb as 150. However the Samsung 840 Pro is currently king of the SSD Hill:
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147193
That is just off the NCIX site, though keep in mind I haven't officially reached the price matching stage yet. This is more or less just finalizing the spec list, then I'll be doing the price matching game. But the newegg.ca links you gave definitely helps out when it comes to haggling time.
Quote:Even on newegg canada, Samsung's Pro version is favored over the Intel 520. Don't get me wrong, I love Intel but performance/price favors Samsung and reliability is tier one on both.
Good to hear, I'll pay a bit extra (within reason) for reliability on the SSD. Frankly I don't want to be futzing and troubleshooting tech problems, because I got other things on my plate. Obvious and basic maintenance aside, this rig needs to be as low maintenance as possible, since -I'm- basically the IT department right now.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Drasca - 03-26-2013
(03-26-2013, 03:44 AM)Hammerskjold Wrote: Good to hear, I'll pay a bit extra (within reason) for reliability on the SSD. Frankly I don't want to be futzing and troubleshooting tech problems, because I got other things on my plate. Obvious and basic maintenance aside, this rig needs to be as low maintenance as possible, since -I'm- basically the IT department right now.
One of the nice things I've found with the Intel is the downloadable toolbox that comes with it. Samsung's do perform better, but Intel makes customer support cake--and I have no experience with Samsung's support side. The toolbox is by no means required, but is one of those nice to have gimmes. It is a little piece of maintenence software that you have 6 clicks, and you're set for maintence for the rest of the time the computer is on. Automated windows optimization for SSD's and scheduling for SSD software maintence routines. The latter of which isn't required either as it will auto resolve with automated garbage collection in all SSD's, but the toolbox force triggers "TRIM" which keeps ssd's acting like new in spite of heavy use.
I mention that because you do not defragment SSDs--ever. Bad for them. The intel toolbox has a small convenience factor in their favor, disabling defrag, readyboost, and automating TRIM moreso than Windows 7 and a few other configs for SSD's specifics. Nothing you can't do yourself, but a convenience none-the-less. It is available with the lower end Intel 3xx series as well, which is more than enough for photoshop.
Plextor is the other big name. Check them out, and the Intel 3xx series for lower price. I would avoid the normal Samsung 840 (had some issues earlier on, no need to risk hitting it). Make sure it is the Pro if you go the Samsung route.
Honestly as long as you get a current generation SSD instead of the older gens (excepting the Intel and Marvel based SSD's, those were all rock solid), you'll be fine for reliability.
Oh, and I've been reading up on the Photoshop forums. PS is such a RAM hog. When describing its memory management system, it is compared to a child in a sandbox that tries to hold onto all of its many toys. I see why you want the 64 Gigabytes of ram. 32 is my limit, given it affects total system cost.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Hammerskjold - 03-27-2013
(03-26-2013, 11:13 AM)Drasca Wrote: Plextor is the other big name. Check them out, and the Intel 3xx series for lower price. I would avoid the normal Samsung 840 (had some issues earlier on, no need to risk hitting it). Make sure it is the Pro if you go the Samsung route.
I decided on the Samsung Pro 256gig. Though the sales rep also mentioned Plextor as well.
I did however finalize nearly everything and pulled the trigger.
I decided on an i7 based rig. I reaaally, reaaly, like what a properly configured Xeon based workstation can do, however at this time it proved too much of a headache and cost to get a properly done Xeon based machine.
If an overclocked, tweaked out gaming rig is a hot rod, and a Xeon workstation is a Bradley APC. Then my i7 based work rig is probably something like this:
![[Image: sirte_libya_01.jpg]](http://media.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/photos/images/2011/sep11/sirte_libya_sm/sirte_libya_01.jpg)
Except you know, with 2 rocket pods instead of 1, because who -doesn't- love rocket pods?!
Quote:Oh, and I've been reading up on the Photoshop forums. PS is such a RAM hog. When describing its memory management system, it is compared to a child in a sandbox that tries to hold onto all of its many toys. I see why you want the 64 Gigabytes of ram. 32 is my limit, given it affects total system cost.
Yep, the crazy thing is CS6 was supposedly improved in it's efficiency, but even if that was true 100%. Larger size due to higher res, increasing layer count depending on the client\art director needs. It still winds up becoming 'FEED ME SEYMOUR, FEED ME!!!11'
![[Image: ls2_090RickMoranis%5B1%5D.jpg]](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5YPTOT5ivTk/T6f3Pp0ZpdI/AAAAAAAAEnA/5CG2OBrjovY/s1600/ls2_090RickMoranis%5B1%5D.jpg)
All in all, after price matching the big stuff (thanks to you folks giving my spec list a review) and tweaking the smaller stuff, *before taxes and before Adobe PS it actually came 40$ cheaper than my original speclist. *(Taxes and Adobe PS was not negotiable, so final tally is obviously higher than 2k-something $, but them the breaks and when you need gear, you need gear.)
-But- with an increase from 2 TB to 3 TB in HDD storage, and a bump to from 128 to 256 gig SSD. Thanks to all of the lurkers who reviewed and gave input to my spec list! Decreased price -AND- bumped up specs?! I love this place!
Thanks again to everyone who gave input and a 'once over' on the spec list, it was absolutely helpful and saved me some money.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Drasca - 04-10-2013
So Hammerskjold, is this thing built yet? If so, how's she running? I just ordered a new rig for myself on Newegg, but I will be doing the assembling.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Hammerskjold - 04-11-2013
(04-10-2013, 11:14 PM)Drasca Wrote: So Hammerskjold, is this thing built yet? If so, how's she running?
It should hopefully be ready for pickup by the end of this week. When I first ordered everything the rep did say there was a potential supply problem with my PSU choice, and if they don't receive a new shipment in time they do have alternatives etc.
Received a call on monday that everything else is assembled and tested, unfortunately that model of PSU is still a no show from the supplier.
So after going back and forth I decided to go for a slight upgrade from 660w to 760w. Same brand and rating otherwise. Price matched and discounted so it wound up being the cheapest price available for me.
I'm not faulting the store, since they did give me a fair heads up, but I wanted that Seasonic 660w platinum. Reading through some music\sound engineers forum, they rate that PSU very highly for reliability and noise level. Even though I don't 'need' a quiet\low noise machine as highly as those folks do, I do favour quieter machines all things being equal.
I haven't found as much review for the 760w version, but the ones I did have similar praise so far. Apparently that 660w Platinum must be popular or their stocks are drying up here, because checking other stores in my area comes up as 'please call store for details, stocks are limited on this unit' etc.
Quote:I just ordered a new rig for myself on Newegg, but I will be doing the assembling.
Do spill the beans on the specs.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Drasca - 04-11-2013
(04-11-2013, 01:05 AM)Hammerskjold Wrote: Do spill the beans on the specs.
A little backround:
Bitcoin prices have been bubbling, and in spite of its drop today, the overall direction is clear. There's specialized equipment called ASICs and FPGA's, but they're not physically available for purchase (preorders are such a scam, the money can be better spent elsewhere). Bitcoins hit a high of 266 US yesterday, and shot down to a 'low' of 150 dollars the same day. At the time I am typing this, it is currently 180 dollars at Mtgox. It was about 15 dollars in december. I see where the world economy is going, and I want in. At the same time, I can afford to treat myself.
I plan on capitalizing on this. I've only got a fraction of a bitcoins from my laptop GPU mining and its enough to buy a pizza. I've done price estimates, and am speculating it'll go where I want. As with any investment, there is risk involved-- however I can afford it.
I chose a E-ATX mobo to fit more GPUs. I've never dealt with Crossfire, but is not as important as GPU mining does not require it, but should be easy enough to activate. Game support is another mattter, but again it'll primarily be used for bitcoin mining. Some individual choices are based upon supply availability. Purchases were made at newegg.
Normally I treat myself with nvidia if anything, due to CUDA acceleration, driver support, better microstutter stabilty and single GPU. Normally for gaming, I would prefer Nvidia cards for running cooler with a better TDP and overall stability (and lower overall cost of ownership due to drawing less power).
Also AMD cards currently don't have as much support for Adobe products, and while supposedly that's changing with adobe's promises for OpenCL development support, I am not relying on it and I don't use adobe quite as much.
However, even given all that, GPU bitcoin mining still heavily favors AMD due to the nature their design. They're a better bang for buck.
Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I73770K
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116501
I don't want/need xeon, and I can technically go for less CPU power, but if I ever want to game on this thing, my game choices tend to be CPU heavy. Additionally the built in GPU frees up usage of the dGPU's for mining. Sandy Bridge E / Sandy bridge better overclocks, but I won't be overclocking at first, and prefer the better thermals at base.
I normally would wait for haswell (june/july) / broadwell, but it is time to build. I also enjoy HT for CPU video rendering.
Sandy bridge E is better for heavily threaded loads, but overall system cost / benefits is not worth it. I also have a lot of single threaded loads that would do better at four cores.
COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R2 Continuous Direct Contact 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler Compatible with latest Intel 2011/1366/1155 and AMD FM1/FM2/AM3+
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103099
Same CPU Air cooler as you. Obvious reasons. Best bang for buck outside of water cooling, and I don't have the time or desire to mess around with water cooling for an investment project.
SAPPHIRE Vapor-X 100351-6GVXSR Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202005
This card times four. Initially chosen due to a supply issue, as the other versions did not come in stock x4 at newegg. I prefer higher frame buffers for heavily modded skyrim and I will eventually have higher resolution games. Crossfire is not really important, as even one can run the games I want, and GPU mining can use all the cards individually since the workload is extremely parallel.
I will have a conservative estimate of 2.5 Giga hashes per second. ASICs promise a lot more bang for buck, but they are also vaporware at this point and have been for the past year (always promising one more month).
If the price of bitcoins remains stable, eventually the rising difficulty of mining them vs the cost of electricity will make it unprofitable, but the price of bitcoins is only going to go up. So I am taking that risk.
Each GPU is a workhorse in this case and is a return on investment.
PC Power and Cooling Silencer Mk III Series 1200W Modular Power Supply features 100% Nippon Chem-Con Capacitors and Metallic Modular Connector
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703037
Technically I could get away with less power, but with a rig of this cost, I am not penny pinching the heart of the machine. PC P&C is one of the best, and this series has been well reviewed. Basically the same PSU you are getting except at a higher output.
ASUS Maximus V EXTREME LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Extended ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131858
Recommended at anandtech, and somewhat hastily chosen, but really at some point you have to stop hem and hawing. There are differences between parts, but they're negible without specific objectives. This one fits mine with enough PCIe slots, and has some nice gimmes with Intel NIC (realtek sucks), and built in Wifi, and thunderbolt. The last has future potential--which really goes to say I have no current TB peripherals so it really doesn't matter. There's overclocking and such, but really that's so highly variable its not relevant.
I would've liked e-sata, but it isn't as relevant as I still have USB 3.0 and TB options
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-1600C9D-16GXM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231568
Good enough category. All the reading I've done on RAM, is that the differences in performance are so neglible it is barely detectable. I have the option to install more for a full 32 gigabytes later on.
Rosewill THOR V2 Gaming ATX Full Tower Computer Case, support up to E-ATX / XL-ATX, come with Four Fans - 1 x Front Red LED 230mm Fan, 1 x Top 230mm Fan, 1 x Side 230mm Fan, 1 x Rear 140mm Fan
I needed a full tower. The NZXT's Phantoms 820's are a little prettier, but I don't need pretty when it costs 100 bucks more. This has excellent performance characteristics, and silence is not really an option for 7970 Ghz edition cards. If the Obsidian 900D were available and reviewed, I'd consider that. The same goes for if the Nanoxia Deep Silence 1 came in a full tower-- but it does not. The thor's a great bang for buck, and it.
Optical drive: Don't need it. Can install OS via USB or through my other computers. I'll get an external USB reader someday--maybe.
Storage drive:
I will be re-using my old SSD's.
Intel 520 Series Cherryville SSDSC2CW240A3K5 2.5" 240GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167086
I've got one of these, but I'd consider a Crucial M500 960 gigabyte now a days, or the Samsung pro like you.
Initial cost: Roughly 4 grand.
Break even point at current prices and assumed 0.15 / kWH: 173 days.
However... the prices of bitcoins have shown there's worldwide speculation and investment due to the cypress banking breakdown (which will only get worse over the course of the next month ) with europeans investing. The recent spike to 260 seems to have been due to asian investor speculation. However.... people's demand is what makes any currency worth anything and there's serious demand.
Worst case scenario: I have an extremely powerful gaming / video rendering rig. Boo hoo.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - LennyLen - 04-11-2013
Quote:However, even given all that, GPU bitcoin mining still heavily favors AMD due to the nature their design. They're a better bang for buck.
CUDA miners just seem to be buggy sometimes as well. I started looking into bitcoin mining a few weeks ago, to see if I could make some extra money while I was at work. However, all the CUDA miners I've tried fail to load the CUDA module, for no specified reason. This seems to be a fairly common problem, and I even tried compiling the miner myself (which has fixed the error for some people), but still no luck.
So at the rate I can mine with an OpenCL miner (running on a single NVIDIA 680 gtx), I'm probably earning less than I'm paying in electricity.
Quote:but the price of bitcoins is only going to go up. So I am taking that risk.
If you're confident of this, wouldn't it make more sense to invest 4K in bitcoins themselves rather than try to mine a few yourself?
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Drasca - 04-11-2013
(04-11-2013, 04:29 PM)LennyLen Wrote: If you're confident of this, wouldn't it make more sense to invest 4K in bitcoins themselves rather than try to mine a few yourself?
Short answer: Financing
It is liquid for purchasing equipment, but not coins.
Its easy to get a no interest consumer purchase loan. Those are offered by newegg , bill me later, and a number of other services. It is rather bothersome to buy bitcoins. Multiple steps involved form a barrier to entry. Currency speculation is also difficult to pinpoint lows vs highs. Standard rules of investment apply. Don't risk anything you cannot afford to lose.
I have investment assets, but it is not purely liquid, so it is not an option for daily investments. As it stands right now, the latest bubble has burst, and we'll see where it will stabilize. It is currently a bear market with the speculators selling. I want to see it close to bottom, then I'll purchase coins. There'll be more bubbles and such, but I want in on this market. The long term trend has shown investment interest has only gone up, and the latest bubble bringing a market cap of 1-2 Billion dollars invested shows serious interest by the world at large. I want in, and am willing to risk a certain amount toward it.
Here's the calculator I used
http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/
I don't know the characteristics of your computer. Always on, off, difference in total power usage vs gpu full vs idle, etc. I use a kill a watt ez myself to monitor power draw from the outlet, but if you input your power usage and hash rate you'll have a fair idea of what your GPU is costing you vs bitcoin mining over time.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Taem - 04-12-2013
I've been hearing about bitcoin a lot in the news. So it seems they take all currency from around the world, and turn it into bitcoin currency which is non-national. Problem is, it's not real or recognized currency, so your at the mercy of whoever created this system, but from what I've read, it's pretty safe, but I don't understand why. I also read that several countries passed laws for bitcoin and other online currencies of no denomination to regulate this new trend to stop money laundering and tax evasion. My take on it is this is the way of the future, and it's only the matter of a few decades before we have a one world currency.
RE: Help review my PC workstation build list, please and thanks. - Drasca - 04-12-2013
"Real" currency? Physical, no. It is digital. It qualifies as a form of money, being as a record with an accepted value for goods / services / exchange since there are bitcoin stores for physical goods / services and there is demand in exchange for other currencies.
Bitcoins are decentralized, you are at the mercy of the international market, which is true of all currencies.
Bitcoins are not fiat money. Governments cannot create it. There is no single 'owner' that can inflate your currency at their whim. There is a set known limit and the supply side is predictable.
I differ in perspective only in the slightest. I believe digital currency and electronic records is the way of today, and bitcoins are only another aspect of it. While people do use paper checks, paper money and physical coins, the majority of transactions are electronic. I see credit cards for purchases, and direct deposit for salaries/wages. All sorts of banking and investment done electronically. Our money is already electronic and banks only keep a small percentage in cash for their accounts.
I believe we already have digital money. Bitcoins are only another expression of it.